LexLight

Greetings all.

Would need your help on advice. If I'm going to get a CPO RC F low mileage car say MY21, 22 what should I look for? Any specific necessary aspects... Can i ask dealership to lift the car and show underneath. And if I plan to trade in..any suggestions. Thanks

05RollaXRS

Welcome.

- All the standard stuff such as, checking maintenance record, service history and checking for accidents and mileage relative to the model years (not driven too much for the year).
- Dealership should be able to put the car on lift and show you the underbody. Also, check brakes and see what type of tires it has on it. Check for tread depth.
- Check the specifications and see what options are installed on it as RCFs have a lot of different combinations for options. See what is important to you the most and if it has it.
- If you are getting pre-2023 then TVD will be a stand-alone option. It did not require carbon fiber package in the 2020+ RCFs to have the TVD. See which one you prefer. CF/TVD or CF/LSD or just LSD/TVD on standard package. TVD was a $2500 option as a stand alone (or before part of a $5500 carbon package) so expect the TVD to be a bit more expensive. Both TVD and LSD RCFs have different driving characteristics so depends on what you prefer.
- I assume you are only considering non-Track Edition RCFs, but if you are considering RCF TE then make sure the brakes are good since they carbon ceramic brakes are very expensive so you want to get one with enough to last you a few years.

Hope that helps.

LexLight

Thank you for the information.

That helps, esp the lifting up the vehicle aspect is what im keen into because it shows the condition properly. Good idea to look at the brakes.

I'm looking at old ones specifically because one of the main bespoke aspect of RC F is that TVD, its mandatory requirement for me the drive mode customization and one of a kind enginnering. And Engine bracing as well, GT3 RC F has even bigger beefier bracing rods that look like bridge suspenders. I will miss the Memory setting though, couldn't find a low mile 2021 RC F near by...oh I also will get RC dash if I go with 2022 and prior...

One thing I noticed was Carbon Package RC Fs are very rare and nowhere near East coast which are CPO L Certified. I wonder how many do they even sell in RCF lineup, 2024 RC F Carbon Package is good but I will miss those other things..interesting point you mentioned is $5500 was Carbon Package original Premium, now it's a lot more...$10+ over Premium Package.

Wish I knew about this car wayy earlier so that I would have grabbed that Nebula Gray Pearl F Anniversary with Carbon Package which I feel is the best looking paint. Seconded by Ultrasonic Blue Mica 2.0, my opinion only.

05RollaXRS

Yeah. @LexLight brakes and tires are both very important and also very expensive. RCF brakes cost $3500 OEM Brembo replacements and also tires can be $2100 - $2200 installed and balanced for a good set of tires like PS4S and other equivalents. You will find a lot of used RCFs with cr*p tires on them because people want to buy such cars, but not spend the money to really put the type of tires the car was designed for (no offense to anyone, but I have seen a lot of used RCFs).

Cannot go wrong with either. I am biased as I have the TVD. It is like 2 different cars in one. SLALOM mode and TRACK mode the car behave very differently at low speeds vs high speeds. People like the simplicity of the LSD and the fact that it does not have computers proactively pointing the nose faster with small steering inputs. All I know is, I did a 270 degree left turn off a traffic light. When it went green, I whipped the nose around 270 degree so fast (and completely flat) and sped away from the double lane turning traffic that it boggled my mind. The TVD made the car flick around effortlessly at a turn rate that was unreal.

Engine bracing is not a big part of RCF's rigidity of the structure. They are light aluminum braces. GSF never had the aluminum braces and RCF has a strengthened and stiffened up version of the GSF front section. You can always put the RR Racing brace in F-blue, if you get a 2023+ without the braces. Memory seats are still available in 2020+ RCF in Canada (including the TEs) so if you can find a Canadian-Spec RCF in US, you will get them standard in it.

Yeah. the take rate of RCF CF/TVD is very low. When I was looking for mine, I also was looking for CF/TVD only and it took me 10 months to find the right one. Albeit, RCFs are very rare to begin with where I live and CF/TVD are a small fraction of even that. Our CF/TVD came with all of the options available, which is how Lexus spec'ed it for Canadian market.

I remember talking to you earlier when you mentioned you wanted to trade in your IS500 F-Sport Performance for an RCF. Better late than never.

LexLight

Now I'm almost there, @05RollaXRS a new RC F member is coming soon hopefully. I just wanted to know about L/Certified. What documents should I expect from this certified program ? Just to be on the safe side that I'm getting an L Certified one only. The brakes look good, so do the tires as the car is low miles..

About the points you mentioned, yes the GSF front end is not having any bracing but that GS F is not used in GT3 from my knowledge and RC F is literally built for that purpose, which is why the GS + IS Coupe + IS Rear designs are used for unique one of a kind chassis design that does not use any existing platforms but rather a new design from ground up. Lexus designed it with bracing, I really do not trust modern Lexus, no way esp what they did to the IS 500 bumper TSB. So that engine brace is a very important factor for me. And GT3 RC F has huge bracing, check it out yourself. Even LC 500 which is based off LS's TNGA-L platform adds more rigidity and they did not deem to remove anything from that since 2018. Lexus did it for cost cutting for sure. Even a modern BMW M3/M4 have a ton of bracing, I already took Lexus for granted with IS 500 Apron sag thinking they will fix it but nope esp after reading the Motorfrontier guy (who got banned from this forum for using alts) his info may not be accurate but what he highlighted struck me, the Transmission Tunnel HSS, Engine Rails HSS I feel these are important for a V8, IS does not have them. RC F has them.

As for CF Package, too rare here as well for sure... I went to a dealership to test drive an LC, the exhaust note was superb on that. So was the interior (it did creak though when I depressed few parts of door trim) and quality of ride. Did not get a chance to go on a highway so not much experience to compare and contrast to RC F. Anyways there were like 4-5LCs used. Including Bespoke Vert (which is the one I test drove). But not a single used RC F. There was a TE but not there for Test drive.

Thanks

05RollaXRS

Good to hear. Yes, that sounds like a good plan.

All of that was to achieve a very rigid core. The center section is twice as thick as what our 3IS have. I guess, what I am saying as it relates to your concern of sagging issue without bracing, you will not have any sagging issue in RCF that you experienced in your IS500 F-Sport with or without the bracing since RCF structure is very stiff to begin with. I own a 3IS and the chassis stiffness feels like night/day. RCF feels like a brick, by comparison. The issue with IS500 F-Sport is that the chassis was never meant to be used with the 2UR V8. Then, they decided to put the 2UR V8 by elongating the front overhang by 2 inches without adding any additional strengthening to the chassis. That added more stress on the apron (where the front box meets the firewall). RCF chassis was designed to handle it by using the longer and wider GS front end albeit with added rigidity(something like over 50% stiffer than the GS and IS platform). In the picture below it shows the apron thickness has been increased to make the front end stronger.




That has nothing to do with the bracing. That issue is because like I said above, the IS500 F-Sport was never designed to handle such a big engine upfront while the RCF was when they developed it. IS500 F-Sport nose was elongated by 2 inches adding more stress to the core and apron section since the overhang stretched out further while Lexus did not add strengthening to the front section. That is the root cause. Even if the IS500 had the chassis bracing, most likely the sagging issue still would have happened.



LC and RCF are two very different cars meant for different demographics. People mix them up all the time ('if you are spending that much, might as well get LC500'). Well, RCF and LC500 are two completely different cars and what you get in RCF is mutually exclusive with the LC500. Just because LC500 shares the same engine from the RCF, does not mean you get all of what is good about the RCF in it.

yok3dIS

FYI: Carbon Package costs a whopping $17,775 now vs $5,500 back then. One of the reasons why I got my 2020 was this package, and the V8, and the quad-stacked exhaust, and the...

05RollaXRS

They made other packages mandatory as a pre-requisite, which is why the cost looks much higher. Back in 2015 - 2016, there were many RCFs in the US with carbon fiber/TVD package, but had the HID bi-xenon lights, no parking distance sensors etc. In Canada, they always required all of the other packages for CF/TVD.

sensai

all good suggestions. to add, for the inspection of the vehicle, suggest to do a visual under the car. my first rcf was a cpo 2017. i didn't do as im advising and missed damage, even tho it was a clean car under the rear right someone had jumped a curb or something else and there was damage that cldnt be seen unless you get on your back and look or put on a lift.

LexLight

Thank you everyone for your suggestions.

I finally pulled the trigger.

Bought the RC F which I was looking at since 3-4 months. It was sitting in the dealership floor, CPO with under 1000 miles and the one with TVD. I was able to look at the underneath, it had a small scrape on the front splitter on one side and other had one revealing the black polycarbonate fiber, both are not a big deal. The plastic shielding had another one. Rear muffler had one side scratched under. All these can replaced if needed, esp the front splitter I can get a CF one for $4K OEM. Exhaust I can go aftermarket to open it up. Or just get the OEM.

Then the body seam sealer had a minor scrape (not impacting the car's body, will try to get a pic). Rest all looked solid. There were minor scratches on the headlight housing, bumpers look great. Windshield had some small pits, I guess I cannot avoid them. Rest of the car is mint as well. The Parking Pawl does same jitter like my IS 500 once I put in P. Guess its the nature of the AISIN AA80E after a few miles. I don't know what causes it. I asked my dealer he said to come and check another IS 500 which does the same thing, I observed it in a POV review too. Not a big deal I think, at-least I hope so.

I had to go 200Miles to negotiate with dealer and pick it up. Well it was my first Trade-In, which is when I realized the industry is rigged against the consumer no matter if you purchase a new one (APR) or a Trade In (Appraisal hit, Depreciation etc). Also a got battle scar on the windshield with minor pits due to I-95 driving, I avoided tail gating but one truck driver was aggressive I couldn't help.

Got the oil change done recently around 1300 on odo, my dealer service advisor thankfully approved the use of the oil I provided which is Pennzoil Ultra Platinum Full Synthetic 5W-30. They provided the oil as well which I will send to Blackstone labs. Unfortunately the tech put a small scratch on the door trim inside, maybe I can get it to detail shop and they can make it invisible.



The car is MAGNIFICENT. I was shocked how well the car drove vs my IS 500.

Driving Dynamics - Steering is more tighter than IS 500. That's in Normal mode. Car feels way more planted and rock solid. Body roll vs IS 500 is greatly reduced. High speed stability is good, like when you drive an IS 500 over 100Mph you can feel the slight vibration through the pedal. RC F does not have anything like that. It feels like a cruise missile in acceleration and going over the bumps there's no rattles or such. In IS 500 the entire front-end shock vibrations can be felt, in RC F nothing like that except the suspension is more rigid. Steering is superb, easily controlled. Road grip is magnetic and rides lower than my IS 500.

Ride Quality - IS 500 is way more smooth and softer, zero questions. RC F is too rough. But once you get into a nice road the car feels ultra luxurious yet very potent. Normal is perfect for general driving. I won't be even able to test it's Sport S+ mode, the car is too fast. I don't understand why everyone reads a spec sheet and say a BMW B58 can do better or faster, how can you get the damn 2UR-GSE's beautiful signature sound ? fake engine sound ?. Anyways changing the modes makes it even more rough and tight for casual driving Normal is best.

Features that I like..

Frankenstein Chassis, the custom chassis of GS front, IS rear and SC Coupe mid is no joke, I realized it when I'm getting to know the car more. It feels super solid, the rigidity can be felt through every turn, every time you accelerate. The weight also is a big factor in the chassis reinforcement, esp when I read this thread about Coilovers. Initially a year or so back I thought the franken-chassis is not up-to mark esp with all the reviewers bashing the car left and right and praising LC like anything. Once I started researching then I realized how the RC F was built from Asphalt to Apex on the circuits around the world from Fuji Speedway to Nurburgring. Which is a key factor in developing this car, no joke in feat of engineering. LC is most rigid as per Lexus but when I test drove it felt more Luxury rather than the tough Racing/Track focused RC F, even more the LC is based off the LS's TNGA-L, while the RC F's chassis is only unique and built for this car only in the entire Lexus lineup, that is special to me and feels like my dollars went for unique factor. Auto deploy spoiler is super unique too. How many cars even have that. Also those Brembo brake calipers and rotors are damn good along with the Michelin P4S tires, I like the 255 / 275 too vs IS 500's 235 / 265.

Torque Vectoring Differential - I love it for what it is, the psychic push it does is really very subtle and yet non intrusive, the dual clutch packs in this complex Torque Vectoring Differential system is truly a feat of engineering. How many cars do even use Torque Vectoring without using ABS and Brakes ? most of the sport coupes use LSD or e-LSD. When RC F was engineered with TVD, the RC F was first RWD Coupe to feature a TVD system like it. Polling speed of this TVD's ECU is also very fast. This TVD was key part for me to own this car plus the bespoke part built for RC F only, more special and also surprisingly durable and reliable enough to handle through Slalom / Track / Standard 3 modes in which one of them is most aggressive, the Track setting and able to withstand the test of time in all these years since 2015.

Mark Levinson Audio - The Amplifier is not 1800Watts like my IS 500's ML Quantum Logic Surround system but the Bass extension is really solid, it's well controlled so both quality and quantity is also good. Maybe a bit less Mid-Bass than my IS 500's ML system. Overall the high frequencies do not sound too bright like IS 500 ML system which is a positive thing, as I like more warmer sound or more like non clinical, not that IS 500's ML system is clinical but in some tracks it does not sound great where there's not much Bass. RC F's ML Premium Surround.system is very good for it's class esp when it's a 2 door Coupe, 835Watts seems ample for this car. LC has similar wattage for Amp but its ML Reference Surround.

Infotaiment system - Its a bit cumbersome than a full touch, I like this old Lexus infotainment only the newer one is too generic in UI. Also the old infotainment is built in Japan unlike modern one. I wish it had wireless AA and CP but that's one thing which I have to get adjusted. Also the fact that it has an AUX jack, the analog 3.5mm port makes it even more special just like IS's system. Because I can use it with my old modded iPods, any high resolution DAP system from Hiby or Sony Walkman or an LG phone with ESS Audio chipset. CD player is also welcome because I can burn my favorite tracks to curate a playlist. I do miss touch system sometimes but not a deal breaker.

Interior - Fantastic seats, These are leather trimmed right I don't see it on the sticker though for some reason. The car has Premium package. I checked other stickers search on Google and here I did not find the new ones from 2020 stating the same. The Brochure lists them as Leather Trimmed only. These seats are by far the most unique and superb looking sport seats that I ever laid my eyes on. No car manufacturer has such an intricate sexy design with huge F embossing. I got normal sill plate, which I like unlike illuminated because this one says Lexus F while the normal one will say Lexus, that is on every Lexus car. Again these are only used in 2 cars - GS F and RC F and since GS F is dead. That makes RC F the only car have these seats. Also going with 2022MY I got the RC F exclusive dash, unlike IS's dash now.

Oh also the Tach Instrumentation cluster is superb. Everything is right there, I like the analog speed gauge. The F start up. F specific features, I miss that sport animation in the tach which showed the components of the drivetrain that are changing with a small card, after facelift they removed it I think.

Overall I'm very happy with the car minus the huge trade in blow, small annoyances here and there. That said I miss my IS 500, I put a lot of miles on it, over 6000Miles !! It was really practical like 4 doors, the 360 degree camera, better parking sensor system, LFA gauge is nice but not a major thing vs RC F/ GS F's unique gauges and IS 500 was also very agile, RC F weight can be felt while IS was very nimble. And ofc I bought it from the lot, reserved it 3 months in advance and what not. RC F is a great replacement for it. However now I have to rely on a secondary car due to it's coupe nature.

05RollaXRS

@LexLight

Good review. Gorgeous car. Maybe, take some more pictures. Your review is similar to the one I wrote when I drove the IS500 F-Sport last year.

For TVD, my favorite mode is SLALOM mode. It just makes the steering so much faster off center. The steering weight/stiffness is a very noticeable difference in the rack/pinion between the 3IS and RCF. I believe, it in part makes my 3IS feel more easy to handle on smaller and tighter roads. The other thing being the width difference.

Being the owner of a 3IS F-Sport and RCF, I also think the RCF platform rigidity is somewhat of a shocker especially driving it back to back with the 3IS. This is in part due to the platform in its most basic form, being shared with the GT3 car. The RCF chassis has zero shudder regardless of which speed you approach a bump no matter how bad it is. You will just feel the jolt in the back or have a head bobbling on wavy surfaces, but never any shudder/cowl shake or twisting motion while in my IS, the twisting motion especially in the rear is very very disconcerting on low profile tires. There is also creaks and rattles everywhere in my 2019 IS350 F-Sport with only 28,000 KM while my 7+ years old RCF has zero rattles even over bumps despite being on stiffer suspension and chassis. The shudder gets better with AVS in non-sport+ mode, but then the car goes completely floaty all over the place so I dial it back up to SPORT+ and the jolts get propagated back to the chassis again.