looknow12

I know this topic was covered under Site Comments, but I implore all interested 400h CL Members to comment/vote on whether a separate forum should be available for 400h only conversations. Dave said no but I'll consider it later, but I believe it shouldn't be dropped.

Moderators please leave this topic here so CL Members interested in RX discussions can have the greatest opportunity to comment and vote. Thank you,

spwolf

most definetly...

Lil4X

Thanks for the input! The mods and management team need just this kind of information from members to structure these forums. As you can imagine, balancing the needs of our members is a tough jobl.

You may have noticed CL has been revising its forum structure recently. The management team is continually seeking ways to make the site more user-friendly by separating the various generations of Lexus models. The criterion for this division has been a major difference in the overall vehicle (i.e. RX 300/RX 330, which represented a total revision of the model). There are many considerations involved in setting up a separate forum. First, convenience for the user - the ease with which the greatest number of members can find topics related to their vehicle. Second, sharing information between forums - the member should be able to find all of the issues he/she is interested in that affect their vehicle in one place, without having to read several forums. Third, there has to be a certain level of activity on the forum exclusively related to that vehicle to sustain interest and keep members coming back.

Here's some of our current thinking:

1. For now, the RX 400h is primarily a powertrain option on the RX 330, with which it shares all other components, options, etc. A dashboard squeaking issue in the 400h is likely to be shared with the 330, tire selection, rims, and many other common questions are still shared between these models. While similar in concept, the 300 and the 330 are completely different vehicles.
2. As yet, while there is great interest in the RX 400h, it is a new model with, as yet, too few in the hands of owners to sustain a separate forum. Note that the 300/330 division was only made after about 18 months, and there were many CL members with specific topics related solely to the 330 to justify the division of the old RX forum.
3. Dividing the forum has produced a considerable amount of confusion among the members as to where to post, resulting in the mods moving many posts to the new RX 330/400h forum. We are still learning from this experience, but as time goes on things are sorting themselves out.
4. All of this is subject to periodic review. Activity of the forums is monitored, hits counted, posts reviewed, and needs reassessed on a regular basis. The 300/330 split was reviewed every few months for over a year before the split was made. Despite the fact that the two vehicles shared very few components and issues, it took a while to develop an "audience" for the separate forum.

At this point, your question is under consideration - and has been for a few months. We don't want to fragment the forums (RX 300's with NAV, RX 330's with ML) based on options, otherwise we might create confusion and drive members away.

Thanks again, and let's hear from the members!

looknow12

Here's my thinking. But through all of this keep in mind, its the CL members that have voted you should consider. Granted only 12 people voted, but of those 12 it was 2-1 in favor of splitting it.

You are very wrong about the 330 sharing most (you stated all) components with the 400. Here's the differences with the new 400. Without any detail (If you'd like some let me know)...

• Gas Engine
• Electric Motors
• Transmission
• AWD System
• Instrument Panel
• Trip Computer
• Steering
• Skid Control: VDIM
• HVAC System
• Handling
• Weight
• Trim
• Rims
• Rear Tail Lamps
• Starting the vehicle

The 300 vs the 330 is just a power difference, yes you are correct. The above list (with the exception of two) is a substantial one, there's a lot of new technology in there. Perhaps a moderator who owns a 400h should be consulted with, I'm this person would agree.

The reason there was/is so much confusion is because the forum was described in the parent and child with the same models. I.e. Parent was 300/330, and the child was 330/400. That's the reason for the confusion. Even to this day Parent RX400, 330, 300 and sub forums 330 & 400, it's really confusing.

There should be a RX Parent with no posting capabilities. Then 300/330 (or separate) and a 400h forum.

Regardless of the number of owners of the RX400, Lexus is still selling to capacity. This makes the demand in interest overwhelming. Far much so than when Lexus released the 330 over the 300. The hybrid is the most amazing thing to happen to the automobile since the advent of gasoline cars. Nothing has really revolutionized it (overnight) like the Hybrid technology.

Who cares if the forum isn't getting 100 new posts a day. There's no race, and there's no limitations to vBulletin, nor the server it's loaded onto.

I believe the CL Members have voted.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

That request is going to happen (partially) as soon as the tech guys tell me we have a good backup. That will make the forum structure much cleaner and easier to understand.

The forum structure will be:
RX Parent (no posting)
-- RX300
-- RX330 / RX400H

As I've said before, we aren't going to over sub-divide the forum unless the volume of posts and interest warrants it. We'll continue to keep watch and revisit at a later time.

Many of the same exact differences you've outlined will also occur in future Lexus models so it isn't just the RX400H that we're looking out for. Many of the differences you listed exist today even between gas models like the GS300 and GS430 and we aren't going to subdivide those forums either:

Engine
AWD System
Instrument Panel
Trip Computer
Steering
HVAC System
Handling
Weight
Trim
Rims
Brakes
etc etc

This decision isn't about server limitations, its about the community and questions that can be shared between 330 and 400H owners. I There is a much larger list of parts and features that are exactly the same than what is different. Many prospective buyers will post asking 'which one should I get' and it will be helpful to get perspective from both sets of owners. 400H owners with questions that apply to both models may get no answers in the 400H forum when a RX330 owner could respond.

As we communicated before, our forum organizational direction has been set for now, and I implore you (again) to please give it a rest for a few months and try out the new RX forum layout we're going to have for a while before bringing this back up.

looknow12

GS300 & 430
AWD System
The AWD system isd't different between the two, the 430 just doesn't offer it. The AWD system between the 330 and 400 is dramatically different in that there's no drive train to the rear, the system behaves differently at different speeds.

Instrument Panel
It's not different, unless you're referring to a light or two. The 400 invokes the new LCD panel built into the instrument panel under the guage, plus has power meter in place of the RPM guage. Ready light for starting.

Trip Computer
the 300 and 430's trip computer is identical.

Steering
Yes, you're correct the 430 & the 400 have the EGRS and additionally can be altered by the VDIM system. Still worth speaking of.

HVAC System
The 300 and 430 are not different. The 400h adds a electric AC Compressor which is unique. The heating also operates differently in that the gas engine isn't always on, the effects we'll start to realize later in the year.

Handling
Yes, VDIM strapped into the GS430 will make it handle differently I agree. But the weight, and steering additions to the 400h make the handling dramatically different. Still, that might not light up a lot of conversations.

Weight
Covered above.

Trim
I don't believe there's any trim differences between the 300 and 430.

Rims
Perhaps, but that's not a critical one anyway. Some mentioned in my list were trivial as I mentioned.

Brakes
The 400h adds electric braking from a magnetic force. When's the last time you've seen that added to a car.

Etc, etc.
Let's not add those. They attempt to indicate that my position has no foundation. I don't appreciate it.

The "again" was also not called for. I clearly posted a poll in the RX Forum to see what RX members thought. Most people don't make their way over to the Site and Suggestions page. I clearly asked not to move it over to this area, because it wouldn't get a proper viewing and voting opportunity.

Dave, once again you've over stepped the boundaries when it comes to moderating. Constructive points are one thing, but using reasoning solely on the basis of an agenda of "I already told you, I don't want to tell you again" is not right.

It's like that other moderator incident we had a few months ago. I wish I could remember the link. Someone was mouthing off about gas engine torque vs electric motor torque. They were using unncessary language. And instead of only ask them to stop, you felt you needed to add (I agree with you BTW). Separate time, separate post should have been used. It wasn't necessary to add that line in the same context. You could have easily made your point against my case in the next post with something other than "You're wrong looknow12" (basically how you're post translated).

This forum topic was robbed from it's RX members (the ones that count) the ability to freely express their views on this. Before you had a chance, it was 2 to 1. Quite overwhelming.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Perhaps I was less tactful than I should have been and if the message came across badly I apologize. I've been working 18 hour days in my 'real job' for the last two weeks with very little time to spend on the forums and forum administration and have not had time to be my (I think I attempt to do this at least) normal politically sensitive self.... so again I'm sorry.

I obviously didn't take the time to list every item that is different on each model of the GS (nor will I) and your personal comment to me regarding "once again you've over stepped the boundaries when it comes to moderating" is neither appreciated nor appropriate. If you care to read the forum rules you will understand that commentary and feedback such as that should be made in private or directly to Ethan (Static911) or to me for the rest of the moderator team.

Part of my abrupt response also comes because both the forum moderator and myself had to spend time making detailed responses to the same request that was made and responded to only a month or so ago. This is not the best use of our time. As with all things in this forum, there is a correct time and place for it. Posts like the one you are making (and the last one) firmly belong here in the site suggestions area, and when it was moved I left a redirect in the RX forum that brings them directly here so your presumption that members were 'robbed' is absolutely incorrect.

The decision on forum setup we've made at this time that I described in my post above is staying the same. We have a new layout coming shortly that will partially help address your concerns. We welcome and take seriously the feedback and requests from you and other members and we DO listen to them and very often take action on the suggestions that are made. However, there are many other factors (moderator span of review, forum flow and main page appearance, key member posts and support for model, demand etc) that you and other members are not privvy to that went into making the decision we have for the immediate term.

I am now closing this thread because of your inflammatory response directed at me. I ask that you not post a similar question or poll until at least 4Q 2005 and if you chose to, please contact the forum moderator before posting so that they can move it with redirect from the new RX 330/400H forum here to ensure the appropriate members see it.