ForNgoods

It seems to me that in recent months fraud has become a very serious issue here on CL. I wont go into any specific examples but i'm sure most of you know who they are. When i buy stuff over the internet i'm very skeptical due to this and it's very unfortunate for all the honest people in the CL community that this kind of BS happens. Some of you have suggested allowing only paid member to post in the marketplace forum and to be honest i really dont thing that'll solve anything. The only thing that'll accomplish is screwing over nonpaid members. I've devised an alternative plan that'll be more effective but will cost a little more although i believe the extra cost are well worth the added security.

My plan is simply. What we need is some sort of impartial mediator here on CL to deal w/ large transactions (someone trusted by all like a moderator or paid member that's been part of the community for a long time) and instead of sending the merchandise to the buyer we send it to him. once the mediator receives the goods and verifies it is in the condition stated by the seller, he gives the ok for the buyer to send the payment to the seller and when the seller has verified the payment he can tell the mediator to ship the goods to the buyer and everyone walks away happy.

the only down side is that it'll take longer and cost the seller a little more due to double shipping therefore i only recommend doing this w/ large transactions in which people feel unscure about. And then there comes the problem of selecting a mediator, possibly a few b/c it'll be more cost effective if we arent sending rims/body kits from Cali. to NYC then back.

Maybe i should have jus PM'ed this to u but i wanted to the rest of CL to hear out my idea and give some other suggestion they feel may help or give a better idea all together.

Khang

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Khang,

I've moved your post to the site suggestions forum where it belongs.

We DO welcome thoughts on how we can improve transactions here, but I personally would not be willing to pay (either as a buyer or seller) for shipping items twice. This IMO will get very costly and would take away some of the value of buying from an individual (shipping is often 10% of cost of items sold here). Adding another 10%, I would more often consider just getting it new.

You'd still run the risk of shipping damage after the mediator re-shipped the product. You'd add an additional risk of items being stolen as they sit at the mediators doorstep (or wherever).

We are looking at quickly establishing some selling rules that should help, but nothing short of totally removing the ClubLexus marketplace will eliminate online personal sales issues. You've got the same issue when you buy anything from an individual online or by mail. Even from real online or mail order stores that go out of business (I lost $300 on a returned item a couple of years ago during the .com bust).

I'd recommend that buyers of large items simplify your proposed solution a little. Have someone local to the seller on CL check out the merchandise for you if it's a big/expensive item. Make sure it's what is claimed and in the described condition. I'd probably even offer for something local to me to go with the person to ship the item if it's sold.

As with any purchase, caveat emptor - let the buyer beware. Use your best judgement and buy from established members. Insist on insurance on fragile items that are shipped. - Search on posts by sellers to see what they've bought/sold in the past. Have someone local check it out like I mentioned above. These good sense things anyone can and should do today.

Pianoman72

I've noticed on some forums (i believe i saw it on matrixowners.com) they have a seller, buyer rating system like on ebay. I don't know if that would help or how difficult it would be to set up, though.

ForNgoods

Hey dave.. thanks for moving this. I realized something of this nature belonged in the suggestion forum but as long as i've been a member here at CL, i've never once went there and i'm sure many other members dont as well. So i figured the best way to get revisions to the idea from other members would be to post it here in the lobby which i thought welcomed all ideas. But anyways, i'll apologize.

As for your my idea, i'll be the first to admit that it's not flawless. I realized that people will not be eager to pay shippin twice but as long as those cost are still reasonably lower than that item brand new then i dont see the problem. Picture this scenario u've jus purchased a set of rims from a CL member and lets say the worse case scenario happens and u get scammed, now you have to take legal action. Now compare the two. In one case u've paid shipping twice and lost some of the value. in the other u've got completely screwed out of ur money w/ nothing to show for it and on top of that if u want to pursue the matter legally u've have legal fees which might cost well over the cost of the item u purchased. which person would u rather be?

As with damaging the item in transit, that could happen in the intial transportation of it as well and i feel it's a minor factor if any.

I'm not saying that every transaction that happens here has to be mediated. Only if both parties agree.

having a local CL member check the item sounds like a fantasic idea but my only problem w/ that is that member might be the seller under a different user handle or a close friend to the seller(seeing how they're in the same area). If u know the local member personally then it has a good chance of working.

Checking up on the history of previous transaction from the seller is always a good idea and should be a method exercised by all who purchase things over the forum. Having this info in some sort of rating system does sound nice. also we could have a blacklist of forum user that have been revealed as scammers.

Khang

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Khang - no reason to apologize . When I moved the thread I left a redirect so there will still be lots of traffic coming here from the lobby. It's just stuff like this doesn't get the focus of the folks that run the forum in the lobby because they look here for member suggestions on improvements.

On damaging the item during shipping, I should have stated part of my reasoning is- packing twice / unpacking is always risky. I know I'll never get my wheels in the same well wrapped and packed box that GS4will shipped them to me in. But I wouldn't want somebody else unpacking them to look at 'em.

Basically what you described is an escrow service, but with a knowledgable person in the middle. I'm aware of some online escrow services that do that but don't personally know of anyone that has used them. I don't think CL would ever want to get into that sort of business as it would be a significant cost and liability. Heck, we can't get many of the folks who use the forum every day to join as members to support ClubLexus' ongoing upkeep via a paid membership, I can't imagine getting them to chip in for such a service. Maybe look outside the forum at places like www.escrow.com as a service provider for this like they do for large ebay purchases.

I don't think you can ever count on someone to look at anything beyond the obvious physical condition of the item. For example, buying a limited slip differential - opening up the pumpkin and making sure the right gears are in there is something I wouldn't expect to ever happen. However, keeping the money in escrow until both parties agree the sale is complete might work better.

Another think I'll add to the list from my earlier post- demand pictures before you buy. Get full size, well lit images of the items and close ups of any blemishes before buying.

LXOGOOD

Khang, it's great to here other club members voice there ideas and concerns regarding the selling of items in the classified section. This is a major concern and I'm sure the moderators of Club Lexus will do there best to try to resolve some of the issues. However, in your original post you stated that the idea of allowing only paid members to sell "would not solve anything". Furthermore, "The only thing that'll accomplish is screwing over nonpaid members". Can you please provide evidence in any of the fraudulent cases that a "paid" member was involved in screwing someone over? To my knowledge, I don't recall any cases like that. It's always been the non-paid members. I also believe it's unlikely that everyone will rush to become a paid member just to screw people over in the classified section. Please don't take this as a personal attack against your idea... It is a very good idea but when you involve a third party, that opens the door to one more bad thing that could happen. What Dave said is the only way to protect yourself. Just be smart about making an online transaction. Do your homework and if it's too good to be true, it probably is!!!

KEN

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Ken, I think his point was that nonpaid members should still be allowed to sell items (and not being allowed to participate "screws them over)". I agree, all participants (members and non-members) of CL benefit from buying and selling the ClubLexus marketplace. Putting a restriction on only allowing the paid members to sell stuff also prohibits paid members from getting a good deal on items that non-paid members sell...

The most likely scenario is a restriction on a minimum participation on ClubLexus before posting items for sale in the marketplace, both time and post-based. Real participation, not just running up post counts.

LXOGOOD

Thanks Dave for the clarification. I mis-understood the "screws them over " part.

O. L. T.

iTrader: (17)

As i have stated before, a simple post count OR month term that one has been a member would do.

some progress faster than others here so it would be like the rating on a warrenty. 3 months (with a minimum of 50 posts) or 200 posts. (for example)

that's about the best you can do.

then rate the ability to sell in two parts. such as:

under 6 months or 300 posts may sell items up to $500.00

over that amount there is no limit

(examples only)

beyond that, there is no real variable that will help. however that timeframe will establish a persons rep and standing in the community.