Scott1258

Deciding between the Bilstien PSS and the Apexi WS coilovers ... please help with some information ...

I'm looking for great performance, cornering well, good balance, no floaty feeling etc... with a good ride that isn't hard or stiff. I don't care about lowering any more than about a inch - so that's not an issue. I want the car to HANDLE! but I don't want a bumpy harsh ride. I've considered the S/S combo - Bilstien/Eibach but it seems from other posts the coilovers provide better performance. I keep reading the work "amazing" when others have described the difference between the S/S and when someone goes to coilovers. I want that amazing handling right from the start!

Car is stock now and from the posts I've read here I'm concerned that the Bilstiens may be too stiff and the Apexi's might be too soft!

Any feedback on these systems would be greatly appreciated. They both seem like excellent products and would like to hear from those who have either one or have ridden in a car with either system.

Thanks for everyone's time in responding,

Scott Peebles
1993 Toyota MR2 Turbo
2001 GS430 coming from Texas!

HKGS300

If you are afraid that the Apexi WS are too soft and the Bilstein too stiff, then I would recommend you to opt for the Tein CS or Tein Flex.
These are also adjustable for stiffness, so you have some room to experiment.

jtanoyo1

The HKS LS+ might be something you could consider too. Adjustable stiffness and an awesome handling coilovers!!!

Scott1258

Well, i don't really know how stiff or soft these two are - hoping to get some feedback from those who have them. Anyone! Please post!

I haven't seen the HKS +'s listed anywhere - where are they available from?

thanks,

Scott

HKGS300

How soft or how stiff is something subjective.

I have the Apexi WS and these are considered as one of the softest coilovers. However, softness is subjective and also depends on what tires you have and the size of your rims. Also, and other mods like sway bars and braces may influence the ride.

When I installed my Apexi WS, I had the stock 16s and at that time i thought I made a mistake. The ride was SOFT. In fact, too soft. However, after I got 18s, the car felt entirely different. In fact, I like the ride as it is.

I personally think that comparing Apexi WS and the Bilstein PSS is not a good comparison, especially if you do not know what you want. Those two have different characteristics. You first need to decide if you want stiff, soft, or something in between, and then decide what brands are available.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Scott,

Best suggestion is to find some folks at a local meet and ride in their cars before you make up your mind. I assume you've read my detailed Bilstein PSS writeup, correct? If you don't plan to do a bunch of other suspension mods other than a set of sways, the PSS should not be too stiff.

Also if you hadn't seen it, Manaray put together a nice list of spring rates for a bunch of suspension mfgrs you might find helpful:

GammaLex

Steve can get you the HKS LS+ for around $1900.00.

3dog

iTrader: (1)

i just made mine stiffer. stiffer is so much fun.. stiff is good. JIC MAGIC FLT2-A are stiffer than bilsteins

Scott1258

HKGS300 -- Actually your post made me think the Apexi WS's were soft. The car has the Lexus 17" rims. When you say "soft" how did it compare to the stock Lexus setup? Was it a firmer ride, better handling, more road feel, more fun - than stock without the floaty feel? Just not as firm as you thought it would be?

Or, was the ride soft(er) than the stock setup with less performance and road feel than the stock Lexus S/S combo with that floaty feel still there? You seem to be one of the few with the Apexi WS installed - so any more feedback would be great about how the car is with the Apexi's compared to the stock ride would be greatly appreciated. When you wrote "soft" I took it to mean that the car was softer than the stock setup - please correct or confirm. And, what's the warrenty on the Apexi's. Thanks!


DaveGS4 -- Yes Dave, I've read your detailed writeup on the Bilstien PSS setup. Great write! In fact, your post is what gave me the impression that they were stiff! And yes, as others have said, stiff and soft are subjective. From what I've read about the PSS's they are designed for the street not the track (same for the Apexi units) and this coupled with a great price and lifetime warrenty sure seems to = a great combination for what I'm looking for! I'm not spending almost 2K for the HKS coilovers that's for sure. In one of your posts you mentioned that for a stock car (like mine) you would recommend the bilstiens. Here's what I'm looking for, please let me know if you think the PSS's would fit this bill ...

I'm looking for a very streetable suspension. This car will be my daily driver and I don't want it to be a race car type suspension setup. I want corner on rails handling (or close to it) along with a comfortable, easy, and enjoyable ride when just cruising on the freeway for a weekend getaway. In California a lot of the freeways are bumpy and there are quite a few places with expansion joints, etc... I want something that will cushion for this without beating up the passengers. This is my big concern - getting beat up - I don't want the suspension to beat up anyone in my car. But I want performance! And, I don't really want all the adjustbility of the other coilover systems - I really want to get it, set it up, and forget it. I would like to add the Daizen sways soon too.

I know the sways will provide good lateral support and keep the car flat in turns -- perhaps this, with the Apexi's, could be a good setup. However, Bilstien makes great products! I have Bilstiens now on my MR2 and like them a lot. And the price is right!!! So - I'm torn. Any more comments from you guys would be appreciated. Oh - just got a call from the delivery driver - my GS430 will be delivered to me Saturday afternoon!

Thanks again for all the comments and feedback,

Scott

HKGS300

The Apexi WS are almost like stock if you use the same 17s wheels.
Please note that if you lower the car, the ride will automatically get more stiffer.
If you replace your wheels with bigger rims and sways, it will also get stiffer.

However, difficult to say if this Apexi setup is also what you would like. I did not get the change to compare the ride with other setups, except for a setup with JDM KYB shocks and KG/MM. And I did not like that one.

D2-AUTOSPORT

Scott, congrats on the new car coming!

I am not sure you will be able to combine suspension characteristics that are at polar opposites of the spectrum. Handling on rails and a VERY comfortable ride are not easy to combine (if at all). For me, I want a lower center of gravity, and some sways, that pretty much it, the low profile of the 20" tires will take care of the rest for me.

I have to drive in NYC alot, and you ALL have heard about our streets! LOL I was also looking into the PSS until B came on and posted a great price for the APEX, I'm probably going to go with those for 2 reasons

1. Lower ride height (even though I'll just put the front at 2")
2. Softer spring rate

Remember that neither the PSS or the WS has adjustable dampening, from your wish list, you sound like a Tein CS or Flex with EDFC candidate.

These two allow you to install a cockpit mounted controller (EDFC-$350) and you can adjust your ride on the fly INSTANTLY. I know a member that has the CS (1250 approx) and EDFC on his GS400 and it WORKs.

Although it is a little more, since you want the Miata handling and the LS430 ride, this may be your only option!!

Others feel free to chime in! Good luck Scott!

3dog

iTrader: (1)

you can't have both. what you can get is all about compromise. stiff handles better, soft rides comfy. pick out where you want the compromise to land based on the stiffness chart. just remember soft coilovers are still better than springs and shocks as far as the handling aspect. good luck

Scott1258

Hey all - I know - "on rails" and "comfortable" is a compromise. But it's Christmas time, just thought I would put it on the wish list. Oh well ...

3dog -- You hinted at what I'm trying to discover and no one has yet responded to ... you mentioned that "soft coilevers are still better than springs and shocks as far as the handling aspect." I'm wanting my compromise to be more on the handling side than the comfy side. I'll take better handling over ride degradation. I want the car to handle much better than stock.

Would you or someone else post about how coilovers are better at handling than the S/S combo irrespective of the coil rates. Thanks! I'm thinking if the Apexi's handle better than the Bilsein/Eibach combo, and combine that with a nice ride -- this could be the way to go for me. Couple it with some Daizen sways and I'm off to the races.

In other words -- why should I, or others on the board, spend more money for coilevers than I would on the Bilstein/Eibach S/S combo? How are all coilovers better? This would be a great sticky thread topic. I know there are many folks on the board with lots of knowlege to share with us beginners.

HKGS300 this is what I was hoping you could post about ... even with the softness of the Apexi's how was the handling even with your stock 16" tires? Body lean in corners, road feel, etc... In other words - if I went with the Apexi WS coilovers am I spending my money on something that is no different than the current stock S/S suspension and just throwing my money away? Or is this a great handling setup not just as stiff as other coilovers but offers nice performance? Please let me know.

Moderators - have you thought of having a Product Review Section? On the MR2 board we have a section for product reviews and it's proven invaluable to our members. Especially for those inquiring about a new product for their car. Just look up Apexi WS, for example, and everyone who has them has probably posted their opinions.

Thanks again everyone!

Scott

D2-AUTOSPORT

Scott,

Check out this coilovers vs S/S thread that is at the top of this page, I think it will help you out.

Springs/Shock vs. Coilovers thread

Scott1258

Thanks for the link - it's great information.