brake pads
03-30-04, 09:44 AM
#16
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First, thank you so much.
I have follow up questions, if you don't mind.
1) Do you have the documents pertaining to the front axle (instructions), and/or checking rotors (e.g. how to tell if they need resurfacing, what their limit width is, and how to measure to see if they are at limit)? FYI, I don't feel any vibration, but if I'm in there, I at least want to know what's going on.
2) Do you use the drain-reservoir-pushback-bleed-refill method for fluid, or the no-drain-no-bleed-towels-to-catch-runover-pushback method, when dealing with pistons to reseat pads?
3) Do our 99 GS's need a specific type of brake fluid?
4) Dealer wants ~290/axle for parts+labor, my local mechanic (for my Celica) wants ~100/axle for labor (me supplying parts), or I can try it myself for the first time. At this point I'm not sure if I could do a better job than my local mechanic. What do you think?
I just called my dealers to check prices. Dealer A: 62/axle for pads, said they sometimes replace shims, said they don't drain/bleed, simply pushback. Dealer B: 70/axle for pads, said they always replace shims, also doesn't drain/bleed, simply pushback, always resurfaces, 2 cuts max per rotor.
Thanks again,
-Frank
First, thank you so much.
I have follow up questions, if you don't mind.
1) Do you have the documents pertaining to the front axle (instructions), and/or checking rotors (e.g. how to tell if they need resurfacing, what their limit width is, and how to measure to see if they are at limit)? FYI, I don't feel any vibration, but if I'm in there, I at least want to know what's going on.
2) Do you use the drain-reservoir-pushback-bleed-refill method for fluid, or the no-drain-no-bleed-towels-to-catch-runover-pushback method, when dealing with pistons to reseat pads?
3) Do our 99 GS's need a specific type of brake fluid?
4) Dealer wants ~290/axle for parts+labor, my local mechanic (for my Celica) wants ~100/axle for labor (me supplying parts), or I can try it myself for the first time. At this point I'm not sure if I could do a better job than my local mechanic. What do you think?
I just called my dealers to check prices. Dealer A: 62/axle for pads, said they sometimes replace shims, said they don't drain/bleed, simply pushback. Dealer B: 70/axle for pads, said they always replace shims, also doesn't drain/bleed, simply pushback, always resurfaces, 2 cuts max per rotor.
Thanks again,
-Frank
03-30-04, 01:57 PM
#17
Frank:
Here are some responses:
1) Do you have the documents pertaining to the front axle (instructions), and/or checking rotors (e.g. how to tell if they need resurfacing, what their limit width is, and how to measure to see if they are at limit)? FYI, I don't feel any vibration, but if I'm in there, I at least want to know what's going on.
I do have the front axle instructions--see the next couple of posts (4 sets: one for the front components, the other for the front instructions, caliper inspection, and lastly, how to bleed the brake system). If you don't feel any vibration, you should be fine--besides your car has only 42k miles.
2) Do you use the drain-reservoir-pushback-bleed-refill method for fluid, or the no-drain-no-bleed-towels-to-catch-runover-pushback method, when dealing with pistons to reseat pads?
I've used the second method with no problem, however, you should bleed your brakes if you are servicing them. You can also use some paper towels to remove some of the fluid that is pushed back. I've also replaced my previous cars' brakes without bleeding them without any problems.
3) Do our 99 GS's need a specific type of brake fluid?The manufacturer specified fluid is DOT3 brake fluid. Use any quality brand for replacement.
4) Dealer wants ~290/axle for parts+labor, my local mechanic (for my Celica) wants ~100/axle for labor (me supplying parts), or I can try it myself for the first time. At this point I'm not sure if I could do a better job than my local mechanic. What do you think?
It depends how mechanically inclined you are. Take a look at the supplied instruction sheets (rear and front brake systems), and ask yourself if you can do them. Other than a standard tool set, some jack stands/jack, and a torque wrench, that should be all that you need. I would put replacing brake pads at a advanced beginner level and will take you about 1-1.5 hr per axle to do. The first side will have a learning curve, but the other side will easily fly by to change.
If I were you, ask yourself how much your time is worth to you, and also, how comfortable you would feel about doing this job yourself (and if you have the proper equipment to do it). One plus side to having a dealer do it is this--they will have to offer followup work. Some things to think about. . .
I just called my dealers to check prices. Dealer A: 62/axle for pads, said they sometimes replace shims, said they don't drain/bleed, simply pushback. Dealer B: 70/axle for pads, said they always replace shims, also doesn't drain/bleed, simply pushback, always resurfaces, 2 cuts max per rotor.
First, is this the install fee or the fee for the OEM brake pads?
Anyways, if you order the parts from Carson Toyota, the prices will be cheaper (about $95 for the front and rear pad set). If you need OEM shims (or for piece of mind), order them as well.
Here are some responses:
1) Do you have the documents pertaining to the front axle (instructions), and/or checking rotors (e.g. how to tell if they need resurfacing, what their limit width is, and how to measure to see if they are at limit)? FYI, I don't feel any vibration, but if I'm in there, I at least want to know what's going on.
I do have the front axle instructions--see the next couple of posts (4 sets: one for the front components, the other for the front instructions, caliper inspection, and lastly, how to bleed the brake system). If you don't feel any vibration, you should be fine--besides your car has only 42k miles.
2) Do you use the drain-reservoir-pushback-bleed-refill method for fluid, or the no-drain-no-bleed-towels-to-catch-runover-pushback method, when dealing with pistons to reseat pads?
I've used the second method with no problem, however, you should bleed your brakes if you are servicing them. You can also use some paper towels to remove some of the fluid that is pushed back. I've also replaced my previous cars' brakes without bleeding them without any problems.
3) Do our 99 GS's need a specific type of brake fluid?The manufacturer specified fluid is DOT3 brake fluid. Use any quality brand for replacement.
4) Dealer wants ~290/axle for parts+labor, my local mechanic (for my Celica) wants ~100/axle for labor (me supplying parts), or I can try it myself for the first time. At this point I'm not sure if I could do a better job than my local mechanic. What do you think?
It depends how mechanically inclined you are. Take a look at the supplied instruction sheets (rear and front brake systems), and ask yourself if you can do them. Other than a standard tool set, some jack stands/jack, and a torque wrench, that should be all that you need. I would put replacing brake pads at a advanced beginner level and will take you about 1-1.5 hr per axle to do. The first side will have a learning curve, but the other side will easily fly by to change.
If I were you, ask yourself how much your time is worth to you, and also, how comfortable you would feel about doing this job yourself (and if you have the proper equipment to do it). One plus side to having a dealer do it is this--they will have to offer followup work. Some things to think about. . .
I just called my dealers to check prices. Dealer A: 62/axle for pads, said they sometimes replace shims, said they don't drain/bleed, simply pushback. Dealer B: 70/axle for pads, said they always replace shims, also doesn't drain/bleed, simply pushback, always resurfaces, 2 cuts max per rotor.
First, is this the install fee or the fee for the OEM brake pads?
Anyways, if you order the parts from Carson Toyota, the prices will be cheaper (about $95 for the front and rear pad set). If you need OEM shims (or for piece of mind), order them as well.
Last edited by SeattleGS400; 03-30-04 at 02:14 PM.
03-30-04, 02:04 PM
#20
Front brake pad replacement #3: Caliper inspection
Front brake pad replacement: Caliper inspection (PDF file)
Bascally, you'll need a set of calipers for this to inspect the thickness. If you're having any vibrations upon brake application, you should be fine.
Bascally, you'll need a set of calipers for this to inspect the thickness. If you're having any vibrations upon brake application, you should be fine.
03-30-04, 02:11 PM
#21
Brake bleeding
To bleed your brakes, follow this PDF. However, as I'm sure that 99.99% of us don't have access to the special Lexus tools, follow just steps 1, 4, and 5. I belive the proper points to bleed is: R front, L front, then R rear, L rear--I could be mistaken.
If you don't want to bleed the brakes yourself, the dealership will do it for about $80 (a bit overpriced, if you ask me). However, it's something you don't need to do too often. . .
Hope all of this brake information helps out.
If you don't want to bleed the brakes yourself, the dealership will do it for about $80 (a bit overpriced, if you ask me). However, it's something you don't need to do too often. . .
Hope all of this brake information helps out.
03-30-04, 10:38 PM
#22
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Som, thanks again for your very helpful and detailed responses.
I currently change my own oil, and I could handle the pad swap. The problem is twofold: 1) I may not recognize a wearing bolt, non-rebounding spring, worn shim, or rotor in need of resurfacing, and 2) I think my time is worth more than 100/axle. At 290/axle, I'd do it myself. In the end, I want to focus most on which (lexus, local, myself) will lead to the best quality work. That's a hard question to answer. My only hang up with my local mechanic is if he needs another component (e.g. shim/rotor/bolt) I'll have to run to the dealer to grab it up.
Price for the pads. Dealer A gave me part numbers (0446522312 and 0446630161). So 124 (or 140) vs 95+shipping. I'll need to ask Carson about shim prices, turnaround time, shipping cost.
I get the impression that whether to resurface with each pad change is debatable. It seems most mechanics do it "for good measure", but that accelerates the replacment of rotors (tricky, yet beneficial).
My GS4 is sitting in the driveway waiting for me to do something. Haven't driven her since the weather got nice enough for me to roll down the windows and hear that squeaking during slow coasting and braking. Damned sound-proofing. Who knows how long they've been making this racket during the cold wet winter.
4) Dealer wants ~290/axle for parts+labor, my local mechanic (for my Celica) wants ~100/axle for labor (me supplying parts), or I can try it myself for the first time. At this point I'm not sure if I could do a better job than my local mechanic. What do you think?
It depends how mechanically inclined you are. Take a look at the supplied instruction sheets (rear and front brake systems), and ask yourself if you can do them. Other than a standard tool set, some jack stands/jack, and a torque wrench, that should be all that you need. I would put replacing brake pads at a advanced beginner level and will take you about 1-1.5 hr per axle to do. The first side will have a learning curve, but the other side will easily fly by to change.
If I were you, ask yourself how much your time is worth to you, and also, how comfortable you would feel about doing this job yourself (and if you have the proper equipment to do it). One plus side to having a dealer do it is this--they will have to offer followup work. Some things to think about. . .
It depends how mechanically inclined you are. Take a look at the supplied instruction sheets (rear and front brake systems), and ask yourself if you can do them. Other than a standard tool set, some jack stands/jack, and a torque wrench, that should be all that you need. I would put replacing brake pads at a advanced beginner level and will take you about 1-1.5 hr per axle to do. The first side will have a learning curve, but the other side will easily fly by to change.
If I were you, ask yourself how much your time is worth to you, and also, how comfortable you would feel about doing this job yourself (and if you have the proper equipment to do it). One plus side to having a dealer do it is this--they will have to offer followup work. Some things to think about. . .
I just called my dealers to check prices. Dealer A: 62/axle for pads, said they sometimes replace shims, said they don't drain/bleed, simply pushback. Dealer B: 70/axle for pads, said they always replace shims, also doesn't drain/bleed, simply pushback, always resurfaces, 2 cuts max per rotor.
First, is this the install fee or the fee for the OEM brake pads?
First, is this the install fee or the fee for the OEM brake pads?
Anyways, if you order the parts from Carson Toyota, the prices will be cheaper (about $95 for the front and rear pad set). If you need OEM shims (or for piece of mind), order them as well.
My GS4 is sitting in the driveway waiting for me to do something. Haven't driven her since the weather got nice enough for me to roll down the windows and hear that squeaking during slow coasting and braking. Damned sound-proofing. Who knows how long they've been making this racket during the cold wet winter.
04-07-04, 10:26 AM
#23
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Originally posted by CokeBear
When I pulled out my old pads, I was suprised to find the rear pads were actually thinner than the front pads. Is this because our rear pads are so much smaller?
When I pulled out my old pads, I was suprised to find the rear pads were actually thinner than the front pads. Is this because our rear pads are so much smaller?
9/02 @ 35K: front 5/32", rear 8/32"
2/02 @ 28K: front 8/32", rear 8/32"
11/00 @ 15K: front 11/32", rear 11/32"
Pulling the old pads off at 44K, I found front inners at 4/32", front outers at 6/32". Replaced them anyways, even though I could have gone a while longer. Rear inner pads on both sides were worn much more than respective outers. One rear inner was at the squeal pins ~1/32", other inner was 2/32". Both rear outers were around 6/32".
I presume this uneven wear (inner pad vs outer pad) to be due to the piston action coming from the inner direction?
I saved my old pads, maybe I'll post pictures of them.
I did not end up resurfacing my rotors. They looked ok, as did pad surfaces, and I have no braking vibration or unevenness. Fronts are at 31.67, Rears at 12.09. What is the limit on the rear rotors?
I did not extract/bleed any brake fluid during this pad change. Fluid was flushed/replaced by dealer at 30K. I watched the reservoir, and the fluid level has risen. While I'm now over "max", I'm way under the top, should I follow the directions on the reservoir (engine off, pump 40x) and siphon off some?
As for a review of costs, here were my choices:
Lexus dealer A: pads/axle ~70$, brakejob/axle ~290$ (includes all parts/labor)
Lexus dealer B: pads/axle ~60$, brakejob/axle ~290$ (includes all parts/labor)
Carson Toyota: pads/axle ~50$ (tax, shipping, time delay on top of that)
Local mechanic C: brakejob/axle, using pads I supply ~100$
Toyota dealer D: brakejob/axle, using pads I supply ~60$
I went with pads form B, and labor from D. D would have charged more if I needed resurfacing. C may have included resurfacing. A & B potentially include resurfacing and new shims. Overall, I spent 250, whereas the dealer would have run me 600.
04-07-04, 10:44 AM
#24
Chowder, glad you got your pads replaced. From my standpoint, I probably would have gone with your route $120 for all 4 w/ the Toyota dealer (but I coudl have waited a bit to save some money on pads). I asuume it's all working great--no squeaks, vibration, etc.? And all that you replaced were the pads right? That is, you reused the shims and clips?
04-07-04, 01:38 PM
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No squeaks or vibrations in the brake system, but it's only been a day since. However, if I listen closely I am hearing an intermittent chirp/squeak at idle from the serpentine belt. But I digress.
I agree, in hindsight, I could have delayed the cost of front pads and labor of ~120 another 12months. However, I bought all the pads at once, not being 100% sure which ones needed replacing. Furthermore, even though this Toyota dealer was fast, courteous, and cheap, each visit is still an expenditure of my time. To it's credit, I will say that this shop was one of the few I could find that was willing to back out the cost of their parts, and forgo their healthy markup on parts.
Shims/clips/bolts were inspected, cleaned, then reused. The only new things were pads and the brake quiet stuff they put on the shim backings.
Do you have the document which explains the rear rotor width limit? You gave me the one saying the front has limit of 30mm. TIA.
I agree, in hindsight, I could have delayed the cost of front pads and labor of ~120 another 12months. However, I bought all the pads at once, not being 100% sure which ones needed replacing. Furthermore, even though this Toyota dealer was fast, courteous, and cheap, each visit is still an expenditure of my time. To it's credit, I will say that this shop was one of the few I could find that was willing to back out the cost of their parts, and forgo their healthy markup on parts.
Shims/clips/bolts were inspected, cleaned, then reused. The only new things were pads and the brake quiet stuff they put on the shim backings.
Do you have the document which explains the rear rotor width limit? You gave me the one saying the front has limit of 30mm. TIA.
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