LS 4-piston Brake setup for my SC4
07-13-09, 08:39 PM
#211
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atleast then both brakes will engage together vs rear brake bias.
I dont think thats accurate. I remember reading somewhere that braking on these cars isnt limited by the abs. So having the 10 pistons v the 6 pistons does increase the amount of stopping power put on the rotor n thus the tires.
I dont think thats accurate. I remember reading somewhere that braking on these cars isnt limited by the abs. So having the 10 pistons v the 6 pistons does increase the amount of stopping power put on the rotor n thus the tires.
If the car has ABS that will override any input from the brake pedal. If the wheel locks up, the system will bleed and reapply pressure until it starts to move at the same rate with the other wheels. The idea being a wheel under lockup and skidding will not stop as quickly as one that has traction still.
My car will trigger ABS at basically any speed when I hammer the brakes.
Adding a larger caliper and rotor isn't necessary unless you have brake fade issues, definitely isn't necessary if you can trigger the ABS at will.
rjp
07-13-09, 08:47 PM
#212
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So, you are saying "Bigger" brakes will not lock the wheel up assuming all things are equal? I think you got it backwards...You can brake hard enough to be counter-productive to slowing the car down with the existing setup if the car is being driven on the street. Adding a larger brake setup WILL NOT increase braking capacity since that threshold (brake lockup) is being hit by the stock brakes AS-IS.
If the wheel is locked up, I'd say the caliper and roter are doing just fine as-is. The only question is the amount of times that can be repeated before brake fade kicks in..
07-13-09, 10:58 PM
#213
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if adding bigger brakes/rotors didn't decrease braking distance then why does the supra tt brake better then the supra na? The better brakes actually move the point of wheel lockup. So you can apply more pressure to the rotor, brake harder and still not lockup the wheel. (In relation to the smaller brakes/rotors)
Who knows if it does, and by how much? Some incremental difference between the two doesn't prove your point. There are other factors, front tire size, weight, even variances between the testing.
There is a point of diminishing returns.
Answer this question: If I were to crush a dixie cup with my foot, VS, say using the tire of my car, would one accomplish the job better than the other?
rjp
07-14-09, 02:46 AM
#214
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alright here it is...
First the brakes were bled closes to furthest, this through me off too as I have always known to do it furthest to closes. Doing it the old school way, bottle and tube and pumping the brake pedal, no pump, no machines. Did this twice...
Next set the parking brake all the way loose so that it doesnt even work and the handle goes way up. Bleed brakes again once closes to furthest, and with e-handle in the up position.
When done bleeding, set parking brake so that its 3-4 clicks till fully engaged. Pump brakes no bleeding, and wala... Perfect brakes, no long travel, brake pedal actually feels real good and tight.
Not saying that this is the way it needs to be done, just repeating what was done and the result of that process was perfect brake pedal and function. GL everyone!!!
The person that did all these also wanted me to post that he would do this for other people that want improved brake feel after installing LS brakes. Im assuming not free though.
First the brakes were bled closes to furthest, this through me off too as I have always known to do it furthest to closes. Doing it the old school way, bottle and tube and pumping the brake pedal, no pump, no machines. Did this twice...
Next set the parking brake all the way loose so that it doesnt even work and the handle goes way up. Bleed brakes again once closes to furthest, and with e-handle in the up position.
When done bleeding, set parking brake so that its 3-4 clicks till fully engaged. Pump brakes no bleeding, and wala... Perfect brakes, no long travel, brake pedal actually feels real good and tight.
Not saying that this is the way it needs to be done, just repeating what was done and the result of that process was perfect brake pedal and function. GL everyone!!!
The person that did all these also wanted me to post that he would do this for other people that want improved brake feel after installing LS brakes. Im assuming not free though.
07-14-09, 10:29 AM
#215
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Ok, another example:
If there's ice on the ground, will the larger brakes help?
What I'm trying to tell you is YOU WILL NOT SEE THE DIFFERENCE UNLESS YOU ARE SUFFERING FROM FADE DUE TO EXCESSIVE USE, LIKE HEAT ON THE TRACK. THE LIMITING FACTOR HERE IS THE TRACTION OF THE TIRES, WHICH IS TAKEN TO THE LIMIT BY ABS. EXCEEDING BRAKING CAPACITY MEANS NOTHING IF YOU ARE SKIDDING. IF YOU ARE JUST DRIVING BACK AND FORTH TO THE SHOPPING MALL OR THE CLUB, YOU WILL NOT SEE THE DIFFERENCE.
07-14-09, 10:30 AM
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alright here it is...
First the brakes were bled closes to furthest, this through me off too as I have always known to do it furthest to closes. Doing it the old school way, bottle and tube and pumping the brake pedal, no pump, no machines. Did this twice...
Next set the parking brake all the way loose so that it doesnt even work and the handle goes way up. Bleed brakes again once closes to furthest, and with e-handle in the up position.
When done bleeding, set parking brake so that its 3-4 clicks till fully engaged. Pump brakes no bleeding, and wala... Perfect brakes, no long travel, brake pedal actually feels real good and tight.
Not saying that this is the way it needs to be done, just repeating what was done and the result of that process was perfect brake pedal and function. GL everyone!!!
The person that did all these also wanted me to post that he would do this for other people that want improved brake feel after installing LS brakes. Im assuming not free though.
First the brakes were bled closes to furthest, this through me off too as I have always known to do it furthest to closes. Doing it the old school way, bottle and tube and pumping the brake pedal, no pump, no machines. Did this twice...
Next set the parking brake all the way loose so that it doesnt even work and the handle goes way up. Bleed brakes again once closes to furthest, and with e-handle in the up position.
When done bleeding, set parking brake so that its 3-4 clicks till fully engaged. Pump brakes no bleeding, and wala... Perfect brakes, no long travel, brake pedal actually feels real good and tight.
Not saying that this is the way it needs to be done, just repeating what was done and the result of that process was perfect brake pedal and function. GL everyone!!!
The person that did all these also wanted me to post that he would do this for other people that want improved brake feel after installing LS brakes. Im assuming not free though.
So it works. Good to know it does..
07-15-09, 12:30 AM
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The process he took sounds very complicated but, most importantly IT WORKED. I'm stooked. So who ever was planning to do this mod, go right ahead and know that it can be done the right way!!!
07-15-09, 01:40 AM
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I'm just posting what was explained to me by the person that did the fixin. If indeed that is exactly what he did, it worked, if it isn't exactly what he did, whatever it really is what he did, fixed it. I'm just happy it's fixed
07-15-09, 11:40 AM
#219
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@WhiteGsr what you said doesnt make any sense. The parking brake system is completely separate from the hydraulic brake system (minus the same rear rotor)
@RANDY P larger rotor + bigger brake pad area + more/larger pistons pressing down = greater braking hp. Its really that simple.
@RANDY P larger rotor + bigger brake pad area + more/larger pistons pressing down = greater braking hp. Its really that simple.
Could it be any worse if you get thrown out of an airplane and land on asphalt?
07-16-09, 09:31 AM
#221
that is NOT a fact. if you cant even spell BRAKE correctly, why should we take you seriously?
taken from: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sus...iscussion.html
there was also a post in some brake thread linking to a blog from an engineer who designed calipers for some big name brake company. even HE said larger calipers/rotors have nothing to do with stopping distance. brakes only transfer kinetic energy to thermal energy. but yea, hes probably wrong
ill try to find the link.
Myth #1: Simply throw on a bigger rotor, more pistons per brake caliper can make you stop faster!
Answer: I hope you knew the tires are what's actually stopping your vehicle, not your brakes. More brake torque doesn't necessary mean shorter stopping distance. If you over power the adhesion limit of your tires(lock up, or constant ABS pulse engagement), chances are you are not stopping any faster or with shorter distance. So you can have a monster brakes system but riding on cheap Made in China chicken tires won't help you that much.
I'm sure we all acknowledged that fact, so there's no point to go on with the tire friction crap topic; lets focus on the brakes tonight.
So let say maybe you have a fading problem with your brakes, even with good performance pads and high quality brake fluid won't solve the brake fade problem, you just need a bigger brake rotor to have higher heat resistance. Or, you maybe looking for more clamping force with a bigger brake caliper.
Myth#2: More piston(s) per caliper means more clamping force and yield higher stopping power.
Answer: A lot of folks over look the point of having multiple pistons brake caliper. More doesn't necessary means better, it is all about the total overall piston surface area. So more doesn't always mean better. More caliper pistons across the pad can definitely improve the distribution of force loading;multiple pistons caliper can take advantage of the design and use multiple pads(4-6 pads per caliper) to increase initial bite and overall feel/feedback. If there are more # of piston but the overall pistons surface area is less than stock, that's NOT an upgrade at all in term of clamping force.
Answer: I hope you knew the tires are what's actually stopping your vehicle, not your brakes. More brake torque doesn't necessary mean shorter stopping distance. If you over power the adhesion limit of your tires(lock up, or constant ABS pulse engagement), chances are you are not stopping any faster or with shorter distance. So you can have a monster brakes system but riding on cheap Made in China chicken tires won't help you that much.
I'm sure we all acknowledged that fact, so there's no point to go on with the tire friction crap topic; lets focus on the brakes tonight.
So let say maybe you have a fading problem with your brakes, even with good performance pads and high quality brake fluid won't solve the brake fade problem, you just need a bigger brake rotor to have higher heat resistance. Or, you maybe looking for more clamping force with a bigger brake caliper.
Myth#2: More piston(s) per caliper means more clamping force and yield higher stopping power.
Answer: A lot of folks over look the point of having multiple pistons brake caliper. More doesn't necessary means better, it is all about the total overall piston surface area. So more doesn't always mean better. More caliper pistons across the pad can definitely improve the distribution of force loading;multiple pistons caliper can take advantage of the design and use multiple pads(4-6 pads per caliper) to increase initial bite and overall feel/feedback. If there are more # of piston but the overall pistons surface area is less than stock, that's NOT an upgrade at all in term of clamping force.
there was also a post in some brake thread linking to a blog from an engineer who designed calipers for some big name brake company. even HE said larger calipers/rotors have nothing to do with stopping distance. brakes only transfer kinetic energy to thermal energy. but yea, hes probably wrong
ill try to find the link.
Last edited by Kohinoor; 07-16-09 at 09:40 AM.
07-16-09, 11:32 AM
#222
that is NOT a fact. if you cant even spell BRAKE correctly, why should we take you seriously?
taken from: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sus...iscussion.html
there was also a post in some brake thread linking to a blog from an engineer who designed calipers for some big name brake company. even HE said larger calipers/rotors have nothing to do with stopping distance. brakes only transfer kinetic energy to thermal energy. but yea, hes probably wrong
ill try to find the link.
taken from: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sus...iscussion.html
there was also a post in some brake thread linking to a blog from an engineer who designed calipers for some big name brake company. even HE said larger calipers/rotors have nothing to do with stopping distance. brakes only transfer kinetic energy to thermal energy. but yea, hes probably wrong
ill try to find the link.
07-16-09, 01:29 PM
#223
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How do you keep on denying the truth? How many people get supra tt calipers and say they brake better? or ls400? How many people upgrade to brembo brakes on their evos or stis and say they brake better? We are talking about a proven fact here. You can keep on ranting about your theoretical scenarios but they just dont match up whats been proven in the real world.
Better breaking system = more breaking horsepower. thats a fact.
Better breaking system = more breaking horsepower. thats a fact.
Read post #229, believe me now?
Only Jesus can say things that become gospel, --
not the Homiez.
07-16-09, 07:07 PM
#225
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I wouldn't want the 6 POT Brembos on a street car, expensive pads, rotors and the pad compounds are wheel dirtying, sqeealing, and terrible cold torque, meaning they DON'T STOP COLD.
Just makes the car nasty to drive and expensive to maintain, as with most "race car" parts.
Worst part is, unless you do some radical changes to the car (massive front tire width) and you operate your car in a way that it's always braking from high speed and even then, ONLY if you are overheating the brakes (DE / Trackday comes to mind) YOU WILL NEVER, EVER SEE THE DIFFERENCE.
You see, you are technically correct that the larger brakes have higher capacity, BUT THAT CAPACITY WILL NEVER EVER BE NEEDED BY 99% OF THE CARS ON THIS SITE.
Sad part is, all that crap adds complexity to the car and technically you are HURTING your accelertion because the new stuff adds higher rotational weight as well.
But, if you put them on you'll sure look cool!
rjp
Just makes the car nasty to drive and expensive to maintain, as with most "race car" parts.
Worst part is, unless you do some radical changes to the car (massive front tire width) and you operate your car in a way that it's always braking from high speed and even then, ONLY if you are overheating the brakes (DE / Trackday comes to mind) YOU WILL NEVER, EVER SEE THE DIFFERENCE.
You see, you are technically correct that the larger brakes have higher capacity, BUT THAT CAPACITY WILL NEVER EVER BE NEEDED BY 99% OF THE CARS ON THIS SITE.
Sad part is, all that crap adds complexity to the car and technically you are HURTING your accelertion because the new stuff adds higher rotational weight as well.
But, if you put them on you'll sure look cool!
rjp