NAZTY97

Another pair of Dunlop FX901's purchased today, completely worn to the tread from un-alignable suspension so says NT&B. I'm starting to wonder about this. Every tech who has looked at this car swears there isn't enough adjustment to correctly align this car with the camber kits provided.

I would like to know, what tha @#$%! is going on,... this has been the worst money pit this car has experienced,.... 2 tires every 2 - 3 months....WTF!!!

Everybody blames everybody,... not much help in trouble shooting from TM Engineering, ProTech swears they installed it correctly, NT&B swears they aligned it correctly,.. . I'm startin' to think there's some BS floatin' around this MF!!!

Can someone give me some insight before this goes next level!

EUROJulian

There is something fishy here. You said they aligned car correctly. They should provide you with print out from the aligner. Check it.
At first they aligned it correctly and now it is un-alignable? You should be informed at first time that car is out of specs. If not make them pick up the bill for the new tires.

Take the car to another alignment shop. Make them inspect suspension first for wear and broken parts (like ctrl arms bushings f.e...) and then check alignment. If there is really problem with camber adjustment go back to the stock hight and ask vendors for money back plus shop expenses.

P.Williams

iTrader: (1)

How low is your car? I lowered mine close to 2 inches and installed the front and rear Daizen camber kits myself. The alignment shop was able to align the car perfectly, and I've experienced no tire wear problems. I don't know how you'd screw these up other than to rotate the urehane bushing sections 180 degrees, causing an additional 2 degrees negative camber instead of positive So rather than tipping the upper arms further out to compensate for the lowering, they would be tipped further in. If that were the case, you'd definitely be able to see that if your wheels were set 4 or more degrees negative camber.
As EuroJulian stated, you should have been provided with an alignment print out after the car was aligned. This will show the recommended alignment settings, what they were set at before the alignment, and what the shop ended up setting them to. Any areas that are not within acceptable ranges should be in bold, or highlighted, etc. Is it a camber issue, toe-out, cross camber...?
I would definitely take the car somewhere else if I were you. If you do a Better Business Bureau check on NTB, you'll see that they've had countless complaints against them nationwide. It looks like their typical response to complaints is essentially that you somehow caused the problem, the sale is final, and now deal with it.

EUROJulian

If that NTB is what used to be NTW I do not have them in regard since those are/were Sears boys to begin with. I worked for Sears Auto one year, just after I came to this country, place was underpayed with negative employee selection.

I can`t say who is in foult here if anybody. In case NTB screwed up, just get second opinion in writing from another shop, print outs, recipts and get them to the small claim court if they do not want to reason. Open and closed case.

NAZTY97

according to NT&B and upon self examination / inspection, it appears the new polyeurothene bushings on both the front upper control arms have failed....]

will post the pics later today.....

P.Williams

iTrader: (1)

Eeeek! I've often wondered if this was possible, and dreaded the thought. So, I'm guessing what you're saying here is that the steel shells that are pressed into the upper arms which allow for the offset mounting, have slipped and spun out of they're original setting? Did the shop that installed them use some sort of lubricant to ease installation, but in turn, allowing them to slip? I suppose you won't know that off hand. Is it just the fronts that are affected, or did you ever even install the rears? How long did you have them in before you suspect they failed? I've had mine in since February, and so far no problems that I can tell. I've had no wear issues, and when I had all four wheels off last weekend to install my coilovers, they still appeared to be holding in the positions I set them. Has anyone else out there had the same problem? I'm beginning to worry.
I guess another option for the fronts would be to install the pricey JIC adjustable arms. However, I've heard that these are intended for drift cars and may not provide enough positive camber adjustment.

NAZTY97

Here they go. Notice where the control arm is sitting. From what the mechanic showed me ( to whom seemed very knowledgeable, and I was there the whole time watchin ), the upper arm is in to far because the bushing wasn't holding it in it's proper place due to failure, and the bottom couldn't be brought in to straighten the wheel out because it was maxxed out as you will see in the second pic.

NAZTY97

pic2

NAZTY97

pic 3

NAZTY97

All I can say is I'm am thoroughly pissed off,.... 8 tires in 6 months, parts, 3 alignments, and installation, and this is what comes of it.

Fill in the blanks with any of my favorite cuss words ( *______________________*)

P.Williams

iTrader: (1)

Wait a minute, hold up. I'm looking at these pictures, and your upper arms look exactly as they should with the Daizen camber correction. You see how the circular shape of the upper arm eyelet is protruding on the outer edge? That's what it should do. The kit essentially lengthens the upper arm to add positive camber. So, those did not fail as far as I can tell. At the full two degree setting, the arms are only tipped out about 5mm, which looks right by those photos. The only way you'd not be able to adjust the lower arm enough, is if your car is really low. What kind of springs or coilovers are you using? Is the car slammed? If you've lowered your car more than say 2.5", the Daizen kit will not provide enough correction.

NAZTY97

The car is only lowered 1.25" all the way around. The top control arm cannot be adjusted, thus static. The bottoms cannot be adjusted enough to correct the tip-in of the top.

CleanSC

What exactly is your problem? Camber too negative or positive? What's the tire wear look like, where is the wear?

Your upper arms are doing exactly what they were designed to do with that camber kit. Push the arm out. There's nothing wrong with those there.

P.Williams

iTrader: (1)

I think that the consensus here is that mechanically your car is fine. The camber kit appears as it should, and you haven't lowered your car enough to render your car unable to be aligned. So, something is not right here. Your tires were wearing on the inside edge, right? I would think your tires would be wearing on the outside due to positive camber, if NTB is actually sliding the alignment bolt all the way in. Have the rears been wearing okay without a camber kit? If so, that should tell you something about what these guys are telling you. My only real suggestion is to take the car somewhere else.

1. I have had my camber kits in for almost as long as you have, and have experienced no problems.
-This would suggest that the product is not at fault.
2. I installed the kits myself, and they have not slid out of position.
-This would suggest that ProTech's installation is not at fault.
3. Autotire performed my 4-wheel alignment and did not alert me to any problems, and provided me with a print-out verifying that everything was set within the appropriate ranges. I have absolutely no uneven tire wear showing on my tires after 5 months of driving.
-This would suggest that it was NTB who dropped the ball in this process. Not to mention, they're the only ones still making money of your misfortune.

I really hope you get this straightened out. It's bothering me not knowing how to better help you.

EUROJulian

I have impression that we are not getting full info here.

I still do not see print outs for old and new alignments. Those pictures do not say much, but looking on the angle of control arm ageinst crossmember I would say there is more drop than poster admits he have (this could be illusion due to camera angle, but still raise question...)

We need few things here Nazty. Post alignment print-outs and ride hight messurements. Post tire size, rim offset. Now this is serious, since you are slaming somebodys product, make sure you can back it up...