chuckb

oh. ok. fixed

natnut

Bilstein Sports+Tanabe NF210 lowering springs= too hard and scrapes
KYB GR-2 + Tanabe NF210=poorer handling and still bumpy
KYB GR-2 + stock springs=stock ride but too soft
Bilstein HD + stock = perfect. rides as well but handles better than my friend's stock BMW 5 series

+ Daizen sways for flat cornering with no increase in bumpiness
+ Daizen steering rack bushings for direct steering and better feedback
+ Carson-Tuned STB for that firm Germanic steering feel
TOM's 6 links on the way!

One more reason against lowering--you alter the suspension geometry and that causes camber issues as well as stresses the ball joints unduly causing premature failure.

GS3Tek

iTrader: (8)

Correct, I only had the Sports, not the hd so I can't do a comparison.

Don't continue to dump $$$ on different shocks/struts again if you're reasonably satisfied.

Since you have new oems already, you should just go for the daizen sways next.
YOu will see a dramatic improvement and reduction of body rolls.

cliffud

iTrader: (3)

eric - consider this an open invitation to come down to AZ to ride around in a few GS's with the tein cs v1, eibach/bilstein hd, and l-tuned setup...

RON430

Since it hasn't been brought up yet, if you have a GS3, stick with the HDs. If you have a GS4 you can go with the Sports if you want that type of handling but I would probably go with the HDs as the best all around shock. No experience with the Teins. A GS3 with HDs and the Sportivo stabilizer bar set is about as close as you can get a Lexus to the older BMW marvelous combination of ride and handling. GS4 goes to harsh ride easily with suspension mods. For ride/handling I prefer my wife's GS3 to my GS4. Just responded better.

e-man

Wow, Nat. You've certainly been on the suspension merry-go-round. Did you do those installs yourself or did you have to pay someone to do it? Glad you finally found the perfect shock/spring combo. I really need to ride in a GS with the Bilstein HD/stock spring set up.

Am I "reasonably satisfied"? I suppose so. I'm not a speed demon, and rarely ever take corners hard. The car rides fine around town, but the handling is pretty sloppy, jittery and messy on the highway. The car would be near perfect if I could just get rid of the highway float and overall just solidify the ride.

Invitation accepted, Clifford. You think I'm kidding, just wait. Let's see, you've got the Teins, and csq860 is running the L-tuned S/S, but who's got the Eibach/Bilstein set-up?

I was hoping you would chime in on this thread, Ron. Frankly, I'm a little surprised that your post was so short. I've come to enjoy your thesis-like posts. Just curious, do you think a GS4 with Bilstein HD/stock springs would ride differently than your wife's GS3 because of weight differences?

cliffud

iTrader: (3)

Hey Eric,

Zach (4Grainr) has my old eibach/bilstein setup.

c

natnut

It costs around $US90 for a full install of shocks and springs, wheel alignment is $40. I think that's cheaper than in the States?

chuckb

yeah, I guess. cost me about $500 for the swap

GUNRU-GS4

Yes, that is a lot cheaper. I was quoted around $500 for install and alignment.

RON430

You know I never did check into things enough to really find out the differences between the 2k1 GS430 and the 2k3 GS300 but the natural supposition would be weight. However, I just can't get across how awful the GS300 was on the Bilstein Sports. It quickly became known as the Lexus with the buckboard ride at Custom Alignment. I would figure that there are a large number of subtle changes, everything from durometer of rubber bushings through spring rates, that are different on the GS300. With the slightly lower weight from that marvelous straight 6 and the Bilstein HDs with the Sportivo sways, I prefer her car to mine for ride/handling. If you had an early 90s bimmer, this setup on a GS300 comes very close to that level of ride and handling. The GS430 does tolerate the Bilstein Sports well and I combine them with the TRD blue sways for a really flat cornering setup. It is right on the edge IMO of being too harsh, depending on road surface. I am fine with the ride/handling, especially now that the Bilsteins are broken in, but any firmer and I would change something back.

If I were doing it again, I would be tempted to go for the HDs on the GS430. Ultimately, you have to ask yourself what you are trying to accomplish. When you start modding a car, whether it was a 68 Z28 or a GS430 you need to clearly assess where you want to be and why you chose the starting vehicle you did. The Lexus strength are reliability and that soft ride. When you start modding the motor and electrics to the point where you compromise reliability and stiffen up the ride to near that buckboard level (OK, you can kid yourself that it is closer to a go kart) you have to wonder why you started with a Lexus as there are better platforms (meaning more modding parts available, and cheaper) than any Lexus.

I have not tried the Teins and there are some good things posted here about them but the Bilstein HDs will banish most, if not all, of the freeway float and with the exception of something unusual happening are going to outlast the car. Once again, everyone's buttometer is different and you need to keep in mind all the mods you have done, including changing tire brand or size, how you drive, what kind of roads you drive on, etc., to get a notion of how the whole package will perform.

e-man

You are a wise man, Ron. A wise man. You need to know where you're going first in order to know how to get there.

My objective is simple -- I am fine with the ride around town. On the highway, the handling is sometimes horrid, particularly over expansion joints and other uneven surfaces. I am not looking to make my car into a cornering machine. I seldom race the car, and can count on 1 hand the number of times I've been inclined to take a clover leaf at speeds above 30 mph. I like the Lexus ride quality (particularly with the 16s that I'm currently running for the winter). What I want is for the suspension to soak up the bumps, not the cabin. Sometimes the cabin gets so easily upset, tossed and turned on the highway. If I could get rid of the uneasyness, and take away some of the highway float, yet retain the same plush ride on the side streets, I would be in heaven. In a word, I want the ride to be "solid." Maybe that's an impossibility with a 7.5 year old car with 90k+ miles. I really don't know, and I won't know unless I try something else.

RON430

Bilsteins, even the HDs, will get rid of the float but you will feel road imperfections more. The good news is that when you do hit a bump, it tends to be a time limited event. Actually, in both of my cars, I think I tend to hear the bumps more than feel them. I am not sure if there is anything between OEM and Bilstein HDs, maybe the Teins but as I have said, I don't have any experience with them. Staying with the 16s is another good thing if you want better ride. Lower profile, and shorter sidewall, inevitably means stiffer sidewall. It is worth remembering that the tires are part of the springing of the car. The springs are what should be giving you most of the perceived ride while the shock absorber, or damper, is there to damp out the oscillations that any spring is prone to once it is disturbed. Undamped, a spring can oscillate a long time. Everybody has ridden in a car with worn out shocks and knows the feeling of hitting a bump and having it start a long series of ups and downs. Not exactly what any car should do and definitely not safe IMO.

But modern suspensions, especially when you start modding, have a greater role for the shock absorber or strut than just dampening the spring. It's why ultimately it is a lot better to find an OEM manufacturer that does the R&D work for you. They can try all the combinations and deliver the kind of ride/handling that they are after. And they use a lot more than a shock or spring or bushing here or there. I really am disappointed in current BMW ride but there were reports that it had gotten a lot better with the second gen run flats. I spent a week with a friends new 750 and I felt it was still too stiff. When he wore the runflats out, he replaced them with non-runflat tires and I have to say, I like the bimmer a lot more now that he's done that. If you can get a recommendation on a shock that is between stock and the HDs that might be ideal for you but from what you describe, stay away from the sports. At least you should be able to take some of the offers up on trying some different setups out.

e-man

Thanks, Ron. I was thinking the same thing. I've heard the KYB-GR2s might be right in between stock and the HDs. Some have said that the KYBs are too soft, but they are definitely more firm than stock, and if I retain the stock springs, that might just be the ticket.

My "car money" is currently set aside for my 90k service (which will run around $1,200), but once that is out of the way, I am going to seriously consider upgrading the shocks. If I could only do the swap myself, I would try all the various set ups.

gsCrazy

iTrader: (1)

where did you get your bilstein hds from? i'm thinking about doing your set up with the hds and stock springs.