Yikes! Daizen rear camber shells have shifted!
08-19-05, 06:15 PM
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Yikes! Daizen rear camber shells have shifted!
Well, while I was waiting for the tire shop to mount my new wheels and tires, I had the car up on jackstands to inspect the suspension front to rear. Well, It looks like I've found the reason for the excessive inner wear on my last set of rear tires. I had installed the Daizen front and rear camber correction kits last summer. The fronts still appear to be set correctly, no shifting. However, at the rear of the car is a different story.
On the rear upper arms, the more forward of the two bushings appears to have remained in place, but the rearward bushings on both passenger and driver sides have shifted. They had both spun around to a 45-degree angle, and were in fact, now set for MORE negative camber. So, between the two bushings on each arm, they had pretty much cancelled each other out as far as camber goes, but managed to alter the angle of the suspension arm.
I disassembled enough of the rear suspension, to get in there and flip the bushing inserts around in the shells. So, now there is, at least, some positive camber being provided by the bushing. However, I can only assume that they will spin around again in the future.
Has anyone else had this problem?
Also, are they any thoughts on how to best rectify this situation? So, far the options that I've come up with include pressing out the shells, and installing the standard Daizen replacement bushings. Of course, I'll then be stuck with no positive camber correction in the rear, and I'll probably have to crank the coilovers back up a bit.
Another option is to only press out and replace the offending rearward shells. This would still affect the pivot angle of the arm, but would even out to about 1-degree of positive camber correction.
My final consideration was to press out the shells and install the standard bushings as previously mentioned. However, to overcome the camber issue, I may be able to install the shorter Supra lower control arms. The only thing I've heard about the Supra rear LCA's is that they are not compatible with the SC, because they are shorter. But in the case of a lowered car, they could be just what the doctor ordered to cure negative camber woes. Instead of lengthening the upper arms, you're simply shortening the lower arms. This might also provide extra rear fender clearance for wide rear tires.
Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts on this subject, I'd love to hear them.
On the rear upper arms, the more forward of the two bushings appears to have remained in place, but the rearward bushings on both passenger and driver sides have shifted. They had both spun around to a 45-degree angle, and were in fact, now set for MORE negative camber. So, between the two bushings on each arm, they had pretty much cancelled each other out as far as camber goes, but managed to alter the angle of the suspension arm.
I disassembled enough of the rear suspension, to get in there and flip the bushing inserts around in the shells. So, now there is, at least, some positive camber being provided by the bushing. However, I can only assume that they will spin around again in the future.
Has anyone else had this problem?
Also, are they any thoughts on how to best rectify this situation? So, far the options that I've come up with include pressing out the shells, and installing the standard Daizen replacement bushings. Of course, I'll then be stuck with no positive camber correction in the rear, and I'll probably have to crank the coilovers back up a bit.
Another option is to only press out and replace the offending rearward shells. This would still affect the pivot angle of the arm, but would even out to about 1-degree of positive camber correction.
My final consideration was to press out the shells and install the standard bushings as previously mentioned. However, to overcome the camber issue, I may be able to install the shorter Supra lower control arms. The only thing I've heard about the Supra rear LCA's is that they are not compatible with the SC, because they are shorter. But in the case of a lowered car, they could be just what the doctor ordered to cure negative camber woes. Instead of lengthening the upper arms, you're simply shortening the lower arms. This might also provide extra rear fender clearance for wide rear tires.
Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts on this subject, I'd love to hear them.
08-20-05, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by SC400T
Do what you can, but...Soon, a much better alternative may be coming... 
Ryan
Ryan
08-20-05, 05:28 AM
#4
For now, this is what I can say...In life, we always get what we pay for...Nothing "wrong" with the Daizens, but from what I understand, much comfort and ride is given up when those are installed. Also, the issue if having to regrease them at some point and time seems common. The Lexus is known for it's comfortable ride, yet we also want performance. Most should know that whenever we "mod" to gain performance, it is inevitable that we will give up some comfort to gain that performance. I have spoken personally to many that are less than satisfied with the trade-off upon installing the Daizens. I have also heard from many that love the Daizens, so I am not stating that the Daizens are bad. Remember, with Urethane bushes, certain things are inherent- loss of comfort and noise.
Many of us lower our rides. Then we start losing our tires- inside wear due to inaccurate camber. To my knowledge, only a camber fit can correct this. What if you could get a Camber kit that rode like stock or 15% stiffer than stock, and once you install them, you are done? No greasing, re-greasing, no noise. Maintain comfort, and gain performance, ability to lower car, and even tire wear? Now you may say you want all this for the same dollars as the Daizens, or less...Not possible. It will cost more than the Daizens, how could it not??? Think about it. You want more for less money...In the world of economics, most of the time, it is impossible to make something of greater quality and flexibility for less money. For now, do not ask about dollars. When these are done, they will first go on my car. Then we will see the results, and the dollars. We are 90 days away, so relax. I will let you know when the time is right, and when CL approves. For now, there is nothing to sell, nor prices. Just letting you know there is something great coming...
Ryan
Many of us lower our rides. Then we start losing our tires- inside wear due to inaccurate camber. To my knowledge, only a camber fit can correct this. What if you could get a Camber kit that rode like stock or 15% stiffer than stock, and once you install them, you are done? No greasing, re-greasing, no noise. Maintain comfort, and gain performance, ability to lower car, and even tire wear? Now you may say you want all this for the same dollars as the Daizens, or less...Not possible. It will cost more than the Daizens, how could it not??? Think about it. You want more for less money...In the world of economics, most of the time, it is impossible to make something of greater quality and flexibility for less money. For now, do not ask about dollars. When these are done, they will first go on my car. Then we will see the results, and the dollars. We are 90 days away, so relax. I will let you know when the time is right, and when CL approves. For now, there is nothing to sell, nor prices. Just letting you know there is something great coming...
Ryan
Last edited by SC400T; 08-20-05 at 05:31 AM.
08-20-05, 10:41 AM
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No, no, no...I wasn't referring to the Daizen camber kits when I brought up the issue of cost. I was referring to the JIC adjustable front upper arms that sell for around $500 a set. So, if someone offered both front and rear adjustable upper arms that were less than $1000 total, I'd probably be interested.
As for the issue of urethane bushings like the Daizens, I'm pretty well satisfied with the ride. Yes, it's far more harsh than stock, but it's a lot sportier. There's a lot more feedback from the road surface. I'm more a fan of performance than luxury...but I am running the Tein CS coilovers, so I haven't given up that much. Also, the Daizen bushings were hard and noisy at first, but have since seemed to have broken in. The ride has smoothed out quite a bit, and the noise is gone completely.
Anyway, as far as the mystery product you're referring to goes, I'm always happy to see more options become available. If we're talking about an upper arm camber kit like the Daizens, but with softer rubber bushings, please don't design them like the Daizen kit. The metal shell with slotted hole system is clearly flawed. A round metal sleeve in a round hole has the potential to swivel.
The only solutions I see to the camber issue that would be reliable are a new set of longer upper arms, shorter lower arms, or an alignment bolt system like what's already on your lower arms, but on the uppers.
Oh, and I would relax, but I'm dreading driving on my day-old tires for fear that my camber will quickly get knocked out of whack again, and chew them up like the last set. A new set of high performance tires each year is far from economical.
As for the issue of urethane bushings like the Daizens, I'm pretty well satisfied with the ride. Yes, it's far more harsh than stock, but it's a lot sportier. There's a lot more feedback from the road surface. I'm more a fan of performance than luxury...but I am running the Tein CS coilovers, so I haven't given up that much. Also, the Daizen bushings were hard and noisy at first, but have since seemed to have broken in. The ride has smoothed out quite a bit, and the noise is gone completely.
Anyway, as far as the mystery product you're referring to goes, I'm always happy to see more options become available. If we're talking about an upper arm camber kit like the Daizens, but with softer rubber bushings, please don't design them like the Daizen kit. The metal shell with slotted hole system is clearly flawed. A round metal sleeve in a round hole has the potential to swivel.
The only solutions I see to the camber issue that would be reliable are a new set of longer upper arms, shorter lower arms, or an alignment bolt system like what's already on your lower arms, but on the uppers.
Oh, and I would relax, but I'm dreading driving on my day-old tires for fear that my camber will quickly get knocked out of whack again, and chew them up like the last set. A new set of high performance tires each year is far from economical.
08-21-05, 10:30 AM
#7
This thread might help you out:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=134025
NAZTY97 was having the same problem. He used a locking pin to keep the camber shell from rotating. I would contact him for more detailed information on how to solve this problem.
Good Luck!
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=134025
NAZTY97 was having the same problem. He used a locking pin to keep the camber shell from rotating. I would contact him for more detailed information on how to solve this problem.
Good Luck!
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08-22-05, 10:36 AM
#8
Pole Position
I have just about every Daizen product available for my car installed on my SC3. They all work flawlessly since they were installed 1.5 years ago. No squeaks, no rattles, no clunks and a pretty damn decent ride considering the 19's and 30 series rubber. That of course, is subjective.
The Daizen camber kit does not have a flawed design. My rear tires were just changed out and after the tire is removed, you couldn't tell me which side was the inner side. The wear was PERFECT. All even, nice and smooth. Just as nature intended. This is with the Daizen bushings AND camber kit. Of course an alignment with a specialist is paramount.
So the camber kit is not incorrectly designed. You just have an incorrect installation -- something went wrong somewhere along the line. The install of these things can go wrong easily and if it does, that's it. You will have problems. If your metal sleeves are rotating then your arm sockets are too big due to corrosion, sanding, or any other factor. The sleeves should be checked for snug fit during install. In your case a nice set screw will solve your problem just fine.
Also remember we have Todd at TM Engineering on CL and he could answer any tech questions you have regarding Daizen products. SN is DoubleWhoosh.
The Daizen camber kit does not have a flawed design. My rear tires were just changed out and after the tire is removed, you couldn't tell me which side was the inner side. The wear was PERFECT. All even, nice and smooth. Just as nature intended. This is with the Daizen bushings AND camber kit. Of course an alignment with a specialist is paramount.
So the camber kit is not incorrectly designed. You just have an incorrect installation -- something went wrong somewhere along the line. The install of these things can go wrong easily and if it does, that's it. You will have problems. If your metal sleeves are rotating then your arm sockets are too big due to corrosion, sanding, or any other factor. The sleeves should be checked for snug fit during install. In your case a nice set screw will solve your problem just fine.
Also remember we have Todd at TM Engineering on CL and he could answer any tech questions you have regarding Daizen products. SN is DoubleWhoosh.
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