WICKED SC4

Not to sound crazy or condesending, I beat ALL the s2000's, Evo's, Sti, and elises that are not on slicks at my autox events here even on r compunds. I have a stock SC400 with Kumho MX in 225 all around.

I think it is driver. If you can drive super smooth and not upset the car, it is very fast in the corners although Id admit not very good feel stock. NEVER CONFUSE "feeling" with handling and capability. People make that mistake with my Supra and get smoked. I agree with most of the comments, however The SC platform CAN have world class handling, and handle better than an Lotus Elise. I am working on a project right now that will showcase this.

Back what the guy said about tires- right on. I think the best tire for our car is a Toyo R888 275/35ZR18 F 315/30ZR18 R with a UZZ-32 suspension.

You guys obviously have never heard of a UZZ-32. It is a chassis code for a Soarer- our sister car in Japan, Actually bone stock took out a R34 GT-R Skyline in the tightest, most technical of corners. It walked away from it in the twisty stock per stock, never looked back. My Tuning Shop is working on a direct bolt on handling kit from this car. Look it up. You would S@#$ yourselves if you knew what a handling gem you have your hands on.

Some of the reasons the car doesn't handle from the factory has nothing to do with the chassis, tire, or geometry. But yet the components it came with.

1. This car has no LSD from the factory like tha Supra TT, it is open differential. That is a lot to do with the notchy handling. A differential is ACTUALLY WHAT TURNS THE CAR fluidly not the steering. Picture this, you could weld the steering rack straight and connect the steering wheel to a differential front and rear, and only varying the speed of the tires you could drive around a track with all 4 wheels permanently welded perfectly straight. The quality of the LSD will make the biggest difference in the handling even with crappy tires. The one I am looking at is a Carbonetics 1.5 way Carbonfiber LSD from the 6speed Supra TT.

2. A super-lazy 3 SPEED automatic with overdrive will not bring out the best from our chassis. Gearing has a HUGE role in control of the car. NASCAR will take advantage of this and change the final drive gear ratio to change the car's handling per track- as well as top speed concerns. Bottom line, convert to a 5 or better, a 6 speed manual transmission and watch your times drop drastically. Handling is usually measured in transition ease from left to right, and gearing has a lot to do with that. Try this. Go through a corner in 4th gear(overdrive at 30mph. Then do the same corner with the gear selector in L(1st). The same speed. the car's handling changed just with that change! It turned in faster, was more percise ect.ect. A inexpensive way to change the V8 to manual, is the Thor Racing R154 5sp Conversion Kit for $1200.00. These two mods alone will change drastically the handling of the car. Even with a worn out everything and crappy tires. If you cannot go manual, get a Torque converter with 2200-2400 stall. That mod alone will drop you 0-40 time by almost a second. Throttle response at low speed is imperative with handling. You can steer your cars with your right foot if you know how. Lexus didn't want the V8 to snap your neck off the line, so what they did was put so much slop in the Torque converter the car will oooze off the line flooring it. Change it. Your car will be dusting 350Z, S2000's even 4WD cars like wrx and evos unsuspectingly off the line. Headers and exhaust will help too. (on the V8)

3. Alignment has a huge role in sporty handling. The reason the S2000 feels "way better" isn't because it is lighter. The Alignment and steering rack was tuned from the factory to have good feel, wheras Lexus wanted isolation and ease. Try positive caster, as much as you can get, negative camber is not needed today because most tires today have stiff carcasses and can take corners with the factory settings. Falken Azenis 615 is a great tire for that. Worn bushings and shocks are definetly going to reduce the resolution of the handling. Start there.

4. Body roll is bad, but not as bad as the driver. The driving style needs to accomodate the body roll, I can control the roll just by the way I drive. My stock, worn out 175K mi SC400 is only 4 sec off the fastest car at the autox which happened to be a tuned evo on slicks that is a national champion. If I went from bone stock to full tuned on slicks with my driving I am confident to be the absolute fastest car out on the track, autox or road racing with no problem. The SC can and does handle if you can tune out the Lexus feel and put in some sport. Learn to drive fast. Quick Jerky motions are always bad. Smooth smooth smooth. Smooth throttle, brakes, steering, and transitions left to right you can beat "faster" cars all day long. SC's are not slow contrary to belief. After all, it is a Supra underneath, and the Supras I have driven Single and Twin have been some of the best handling cars in the world. Light doesnt mean handling. S2000 feels light and good in corners, but side by side the Supra will smoke it in the corners all day long. Supra Brakes deeper, corners better and accelerates out better. Even if a car "feels" heavier it may handle better than it feels. Supra is notorious for that.

I have been road racing /autox for over 10 years years now, all different cars, from 2000 lb FF cars to 4000 lb 4 doors to 800whp Supras. Driver and tire are the biggest handling mods and the cheapest. I bet with a pair of slicks on my worn out stock car I could smoke 99% of the turbo, tuned and modded SC on this forum in a tight handling track, no problem. I make a lot of vettes, miatas, evos and sti's mad. I hear "WHAT?!? THAT THING RAN a WHAT?...heavy piece of..." comments all the time, the car is capable, is the tire? is the driver? Work on that first.

Bottom line: The driver makes the car work, the car doesn't make the driver work.

Even if you spend $30K on your car with turbos, 6sp, brakes susp, tires/rims, seats, harnesses, steering wheels ect. ect. to go faster, Your car will still get smoked by a 60hp FF HONDA with slicks and good driver.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Great post!

Finally someone admits the truth - feel is so totally overrated it isn't funny. Feels good != drives fast and never has. I once flew with a guy coming home from a racing event. He is an open wheel racer chassis tuner. I asked him about feel specifically, and he said, "I don't care how the car feels, I'm going to change it to make it fast. If the driver has to work to make that happen, that's his job."

Every time I read about BMW's legendary "feel" I laugh at the foolishness. Feel means nothing, lap times mean everything. Body roll is totally overrated as well. So what it rolls? It doesn't mean it won't go fast. I'll take roll with wheel compliance over no roll and skipping over the tops of the bumps any day.

Thanks for posting TRUTH!

CDY

Keep in mind though, a car that inspires driver confidence is more fun to drive. That's what everyone is saying about the Viper vs Vette debate. Yeah, the Vette is quicker and more nimble, but everyone who's reviewed it says it's absolutely terrifying to drive at its limit. The Viper on the other hand is not as balanced, but it's much easier to push the limits because of the confidence it inspires.

Case in point, my 240sx was definitely slower than my SC300, even in auto-x, but it was much easier to drive fast because it wasn't looking to kill me if I pushed it a little too far.

over40driv

Seems like thats been the bane of the luxury/ sorts coupe[ to heavy on the track] without having the interior stripped. So we lighten it up and tighten the suspension, and have the best of both worlds.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Most reviewers are really poor drivers. Check out Danica Patricks Z06 review...she can drive!

CDY

That's why people pay a premium for high end luxury/exotics... they're already light and still retain their cushiness

chrisalpho

i agree the stock ride on our cars suck , i am thinking of going agx and tt springs any thoughts ?

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

would be good, a little stiffer, a little lower than stock... (+15-20% stiffer, .5" lower)

depends on what you are looking for though...

greyBLITZ

iTrader: (2)

Well the fact that it weighs as much as a small truck gives it pretty crappy handling. But other than that, I don't mind the stock ride; it is a reasonable compromise between ride quality and body roll.

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

our cars are NOT THAT heavy...

most SC's weigh between 3500-3600 lbs...

3000GT's weigh around 3600 lbs

300ZX's weigh around 3500 lbs

Supras weigh around 3600 lbs

Bugatti Veyron - 4300+ lbs

350Z - 3350 lbs

Mustang - 3400 lbs

Eclipse GT - 3500 lbs

Viper - 3500 lbs

Basically most full size sports cars are within 150 lbs of our cars... I don't see that as being too bad at all...

greyBLITZ

iTrader: (2)

Haha! I was just exaggerating a little lol. I get what you mean though. It is heavy, but not an immensely staggering amount of weight.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

My Supra weighs 3415 bone stock with spare, jack, and all fluids - 1/8 tank of fuel - on a certified scale. It's a hardtop and this is the exact curb weight Toyota claimed. Official weight is 3475 for the targa and 3485 for the auto targa. The hardtop NA 5 speed officially weighs 3215.

The SC manual weighs 3505 in 5 speed trim and 3525 in automatic according to the same documentation. So basically, the NA Supra with a 290 lb passenger weighs the same as the SC300. The SC400 is worse - 3615 - 5 lbs less than my IS350 with lux/nav/ML weighed at Sac Raceway with a half tank of fuel.

Lexus cars are heavy. They're also quiet. My first ride in a MkIV Supra was in September 1994 - just before I bought mine. I could not believe how LOUD it was with road noise from the MXX3s and practically no attempt made to silence the car.

We don't even want to talk about what Corvettes and Vipers weigh, or my favorite lightweight, the Lotus Exige...

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

They still aren't ~that~ heavy... stick a CF hood and drop in some lighter seats and you are right in the same area as a Supra... (and it's still quieter)

As with everything, there will always be lighter, smaller, etc... The Exige is a fun little car to drive, but they are two seaters, and on top of that, two decent sized guys can barely ride in the car - When I drove one, when a friend rode with me, I was bumping him every time I shifter.... Even better than a Lotus would be the Ariel Atom... but, then you get even less... You can't really compare our cars to those, however on high speed sweepers, they aren't that much faster than our cars...

The Corvette isn't exactly a super lightweight though... 3200 lbs... They are one of the more nimble street cars, I like em... but again, two seater...

It's hard to compare our cars against those - they just weren't built to be competition...

240sxer

i havent had a chance to really push my SC yet, but so far i like it and looking forward to pushing it at a track day.


currently i have.


apex'i N1 coilovers
JIC front upper arms
Battle Version Rear Traction Arm
Battle Version Rear Lower Arm
f/r titan motorsport sway bars
LSD

CDY

The target I currently have my sights on is the upcoming LF-A. Can't wait for some official specs on that beast.