SCV8

I figured that rapid-oversteer thing out; the stock rear suspension actually is so soft that it bottoms out, not against the ground or anything, but internally when you lean into a corner hard.
When the car gets on the bumpstops, the suspension goes full stiff and starts to break loose.
Some Supra springs, and/or rear swaybar will make the car oversteer more, but WAY more predictable.
I am fairly certain to not be confused on that one at least.

RaynArt

i think mine handles OK. only thing on it is AGX shocks and eibach pro springs (from supratt). and supra tt wheels.

going to replace the bushings all around and pick up daizen sway bars and some strut tower bar. after that i THINK it should feel 10x better.

i understand what you guys are talkin about with the small gap between over/under steer. the first year i had the car i spun it on a tight right hander in some twisty area here. put on new tires, felt better but that funny light rear end feel was there. after the springs/shocks i dont get the unpredictable oversteer anymore. best $300 i spent but now that im used to it i still feels theres a little too much roll in the car.

bmsport

My 300 handles awsome with Tein HAs and Daizen bushings. Other than those mods, all i have for suspension is a cusco strut bar and 17 TT wheels with BFG KD rubber (19s on the street). But....before those mods the car handled like a wet mop.

ATL-SC

mine is still stock all around, but i do have some nive tires on crappy gold lexus 16's dont ask me where the previous owner found them.
other than the insane body roll i have no problem with tracking or any other issues.

J J

The SC is a not a very impressive handler to begin with ,but the lack of really kills it. Sure, replace 10 year old blown stock shocks with aftermarket suspension and the difference will really noticable, but it still dont make it good handling car.

SCV8

That's so true, after all, the Supra that shares it's chassis with these cars are really just such poor handlers as well.
That's why I own one now after years of owning just sports cars, I just had to, after twenty years, begin to drive a car with crappy handling, you know, for a change of pace and all.


www.racenow.com

www.bondurant.com

SC400-V8

iTrader: (1)

Whats the real difference between the Supra LCAs and the SC LCAs? They both fit the same... both have two new bushings in each and a balljoint. Supposedly the supra ones will handle slightly better and have the same ride quality.... can anyone tell me what to expect if I replace my wasted LCAs with supra LCAs at this point?

Im at about 98,000 miles and I live on a very bumpy dirt road... My suspension pops and makes noise constantly... new LCAs are needed I believe.

SUPRMSC

iTrader: (7)

The supra control arms (upper I believe) is alot more thicker and the bushing is more updated and solid.

Handling wise I doubt you will feel too much difference from the SC Control Arms. The only real decent thing you will get out of it is probably the durability.

Btw, to those of you who think a stock or near stock SC has good handling, you need to go ride in a Lancer Evo, Skyline, or any track modified car. Our cars are underpowered pigs

until you mod them up!

PsychoPilo

My father has a 1992 SC400 with Tokico shocks. From a guy who autocrosses a CRX Si with so much grip it can put a kink in your back, I say that car handles very well.

If your car is lowered you will have more body roll because even though the CG lowers the roll center lowers more. This means the weight above the point at which the body rolls increases giving it more leverage on leaning the car. Toyota engineers designed the car with ideal suspension geometry, I would never change it.

The wandering felt in lowered cars is called bump steer. Because the steering rods don't follow the exact same arc as the control arms they tend to change the toe angle at the extreme ranges of suspension travel. Lowered cars can easily get into this range.

Now if you don't race and don't mind sacrificing ride quality. Heck yah lower your car. It looks good.

A great article was written on roll center in the August 2005 addition of Sport Compact Car Magazine. It also explains how to regain the proper suspension geometry in a lowered car. Let me know if posting the article is a popular and legal idea.

SCV8

That's the first time I've read this; I learned it the hard way some twenty years ago.
I hope there's a way you can show us a link; education is a good thing.

RADSC

Wandering or bumpsteer:

Solution:

Get the Daizen front camber kit for folks with lowered springs/coils. Once it can be aligned to spec, NO MORE wandering. Back to stock steering. Plus tire wear, no more. Although, ride is rougher.

Another note:

Anyone drive or 350z or g35??? How do we get our cars to handle like that?? Is it possible?

I have new steering rack bushings, front lca's, wide tires, adjustable shocks and springs. Drives like a boat compared to the z or g35. (drove them around for a day or two)

PsychoPilo

Correcting camber only solves a small part of the equation. The major problem comes from the angle of the control arms when the car is lowered.
"This Sentra racercar has had the lower ball joint relocated downward to correct the roll center and camber curve. Chevy parts from coleman racing were used to fabricate this with a minimum of expense."(SCCM)

Fixing bumpsteer requires fabrication of a steering tie rod end that is adjusted for the suspension range of a lowered vehicle.
"The tie rod pivot location can be adjusted with spacers to correct bump steer; the tie rod ends are available for multiple applications. A fabrication shop can construct these parts for relatively little money as well."(SCCM)

So if you guys want to get your moneys worth out of that drop I suggest you find a shop specializing in road racing and spend "relatively little money" to make your car handle like a 350Z or G35. I hope in the future I will be responsible for some asphalt shredding SCs out there.

As for me, Im picking up my 1996 SC300 with 60,493 miles this weekend. By agreement I can't modify it until I am out of college. But that doesn't mean if the shocks go south Im not going to put some Tein Flexs on it! Its good to be driving a Lexus at 19. Ive been driving my dads car for awhile and I thought it was funny that I drive it slower than my CRX. I set the cruise control for 65, turn on some music, and think to myself "whats the rush?"

RADSC

Being an actual SC owner for the life of my car, I know from personal experience that correcting the camber with a camber kit will solve the "wandering problem."

I drove the car stock for 10yrs.
I drove the car lowered with lowered springs and shocks for 2yrs with bumpsteer.
I've been driving the car with the camber kit for over 2yrs now without bumpsteer.
That is how I have come to that conclusion. Ask others with the camber kit who are able to bring the camber back to specs.

Don't get me wrong, my car handles much better than stock. But nothing compared to a Z or G35. If it can be done "with minimal resources" by all means do it. Everyone on this board will follow. I really think you need to have driven the above cars for a day or two to understand.

There is a lot of information out there. Research information carefully. The more reliable info is usually from people who have first hand experience and those who do their own work (ie, backyard mechanic).

Every car is different. What may work for a crx may not work for another car (I'm not a honda hater. I used to own a EG coupe with b16 hydro, ITR brakes, etc. Everyone has to start somewhere).

PsychoPilo

Tell us how this camber kit works.

"A wheel tends to run in a circular path toward the direction in which it leans, and at any time a wheel is not running at a right angle with the road surface, the flat tread is not fully in contact with the road."(http://www.pca.org/autox/AX_11.html)

Not having the full contact patch on the road will make the car follow the grooves on the highway more readily. So yah correcting camber will help wandering on the highway, but wandering isn't to be confused with bump steer. You feel bump steer when you hit a dip in the highway or a bump in the road and car changes direction on its own. Not a good thing to happen when at uber fast speeds.

But can I get some input from people who drive lowered SCs? After lowering your car has it become harder to control at speed or on bumpy roads? Do you experience more body roll than before lowering? Though the extra body roll is probably offset by stiffer suspension.

Every car is different, but the physics never change.

933005spd

Just a side note:

Yes, the laws of physics (not talking Quantum here) do not change.

However you cannot do the same thing to two different cars and expect the same results. Even two of the same cars. Too many variables at play here to say that if you add this one component then your car will be like x

Tire pressure, bearing wear and so many other factors at play.

I just want to clarify, because I hear that all the time on forums that 'eh, its physics, it doesn't change'. ha tell that to Schrodinger's cat. http://www.phobe.com/s_cat/s_cat.html

Sorry, I love physics (Purdue 97) and just want want to make sure that people understand that you need to look at all the variables involved with the problem.