Which Big Brakes are the best for the bucks?
#61
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by RMMGS4
There are other variables that could explain that I suppose. Was this the only mod done and then the dyno run???
pretty sure that was the only change and they dynoed before and after.(hoping for an increase)
Originally Posted by RMMGS4
The other thing is that car is front wheel drive and a low torque motor, so it directly has to turn those BBK pieces. A rear wheel drive , v8 motored car is not going to be affected the same way (unless a rear BBK is installed).
I agree with you that just because it took 7whp off a wimpy rsx doesn't mean it would take 7whp off a V8, but the basic physics are the same.
#62
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Some of you guys were talking about pad selection. Here is a little something that I wrote up on another forum
I figure a lot of people might find this useful. Here at StopTech we have probably tried out more brake pads on the same car than most. I need to preface this post with a few things.
1. Tires will have more effect on stopping distance than brake pads. Brakes stop the wheels from turning.
2. These are all street pads. None of these pads are intended for track use. On the track brake temps are much higher than they would ever be on the street or a spirited back road drive. One of the guys here went out to a track day on street tires and Axxis Ultimate pads. He had them fade in every session, and it was his first track day!
3. With performance comes the dust. There isn't a brake pad that can give you the most performance and have no dust. If that pad existed, we'd all be using it. With more performance pads also comes with noise sometimes.
4. When considering pads, try not to focus on what materials the pads are made up. The chemicals can be deceiving. Instead, focus on the pads' characteristics. What is their temp range? How much bite do they have? How much dust do they put out? etc.
5. Finally, all brake pads need a good bed-in to work properly. Here is why. http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/faqs.shtml#15
Axxis ULT (formerly Ultimates) - These are are great for the price. They are used as the standard pad in almost all big brake kits we ship. They have good high bite and a good temp range for a street pad. These have more bite than the Hawk HPS or Axxis D+ pads. The down side is that these pads are by no means a "low dust" pad.
Axxis D+ - Low dust low noise solution from Axxis. Great for the everyday driver. The bite might be a little better than stock. I have not been able to compare back to back which is the only real way to tell.
Hawk HPS - Lower dust Lower noise pad from hawk that a lot of people like. Doesn't have as much dust as the Axxis ULT, and definitely doesn't have as much bite. The temp range is ok, but the ULT pads go higher.
Hawk HP+ - High bite and high MOT(Max Operating Temp). Has a little more bite than the Axxis ULT, but doesn't quite go as high a temperature. It is close though. It does go higher than the Hawk HPS, and it also puts out more dust.
Hawk Perf Ceramic - oooooohhhh aaaaahhhh this has that buzz word "ceramic" I gotta say these are some nice brake pads. I just put them in my car last night. They have more bite than the Hawk HPS, and seem to put out less dust. I haven't had them long enough to really make a judgement. They temp range is that close to the Hawk HPS. In stock caliper form, they are only available for the rear. I have a big brake kit upfront is how I got them up there.
If you are doing Auto-x, Axxis Ultimates or Hawk HP+ are a great choice. These are also good for performance street use.
If you would like something lower dust, I'd go with the Axxis D+ pads. These are low dust, low noise, very compliant pads.
I would say that Hawk HPS and Axxis Metal masters are pretty middle ground. They don't have the most performance, and they don't put out the least dust.
JDM pads (Pmu, Endless) - Can't comment since we have not had any direct experience with them.
When reading recommendations, consider the person who the recommendation comes from. What is best for one person may not be the best for another. Hopefully this will help out some people with their pad selections.
1. Tires will have more effect on stopping distance than brake pads. Brakes stop the wheels from turning.
2. These are all street pads. None of these pads are intended for track use. On the track brake temps are much higher than they would ever be on the street or a spirited back road drive. One of the guys here went out to a track day on street tires and Axxis Ultimate pads. He had them fade in every session, and it was his first track day!
3. With performance comes the dust. There isn't a brake pad that can give you the most performance and have no dust. If that pad existed, we'd all be using it. With more performance pads also comes with noise sometimes.
4. When considering pads, try not to focus on what materials the pads are made up. The chemicals can be deceiving. Instead, focus on the pads' characteristics. What is their temp range? How much bite do they have? How much dust do they put out? etc.
5. Finally, all brake pads need a good bed-in to work properly. Here is why. http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/faqs.shtml#15
Axxis ULT (formerly Ultimates) - These are are great for the price. They are used as the standard pad in almost all big brake kits we ship. They have good high bite and a good temp range for a street pad. These have more bite than the Hawk HPS or Axxis D+ pads. The down side is that these pads are by no means a "low dust" pad.
Axxis D+ - Low dust low noise solution from Axxis. Great for the everyday driver. The bite might be a little better than stock. I have not been able to compare back to back which is the only real way to tell.
Hawk HPS - Lower dust Lower noise pad from hawk that a lot of people like. Doesn't have as much dust as the Axxis ULT, and definitely doesn't have as much bite. The temp range is ok, but the ULT pads go higher.
Hawk HP+ - High bite and high MOT(Max Operating Temp). Has a little more bite than the Axxis ULT, but doesn't quite go as high a temperature. It is close though. It does go higher than the Hawk HPS, and it also puts out more dust.
Hawk Perf Ceramic - oooooohhhh aaaaahhhh this has that buzz word "ceramic" I gotta say these are some nice brake pads. I just put them in my car last night. They have more bite than the Hawk HPS, and seem to put out less dust. I haven't had them long enough to really make a judgement. They temp range is that close to the Hawk HPS. In stock caliper form, they are only available for the rear. I have a big brake kit upfront is how I got them up there.
If you are doing Auto-x, Axxis Ultimates or Hawk HP+ are a great choice. These are also good for performance street use.
If you would like something lower dust, I'd go with the Axxis D+ pads. These are low dust, low noise, very compliant pads.
I would say that Hawk HPS and Axxis Metal masters are pretty middle ground. They don't have the most performance, and they don't put out the least dust.
JDM pads (Pmu, Endless) - Can't comment since we have not had any direct experience with them.
When reading recommendations, consider the person who the recommendation comes from. What is best for one person may not be the best for another. Hopefully this will help out some people with their pad selections.
#64
Northern California Regional Officer
iTrader: (5)
Originally Posted by chuckb
pretty sure that was the only change and they dynoed before and after.(hoping for an increase)
I agree with you that just because it took 7whp off a wimpy rsx doesn't mean it would take 7whp off a V8, but the basic physics are the same.
I agree with you that just because it took 7whp off a wimpy rsx doesn't mean it would take 7whp off a V8, but the basic physics are the same.
Yes the "basic" physics are the same, but comparing a fwd vs rwd with BBK fronts, the physics are not exactly the same. I will attempt to explain more why the FWD power loss would differ from RWD loss.
Assuming all other things being equal, if you had two cars with the same weight & size and the same HP/TQ motor, and BBK with larger diameter rotors on front ONLY, the car with front wheel drive would accelerate slower than the otherwise equivalent car with rear wheel drive.
Simple test: Take a bicycle and try to accelerate from a standstill with 20 lbs added to the outer rim of the rear wheel, then try the same thing with 20 lbs added to the front rim wheel. You lose more power when weight is added to the "powered " wheel. In this case the rear rim.
Also everyone needs to understand that my analogy is ONLY focusing on the rotor weight and the larger diameter of that rotor. The weight of the caliper won't have an affect on FWD vs RWD power loss, because it is not playing a role affecting centrifugal force since it is a stationary part and not a spinning part such as the tire/ wheel / rotor components which DO play a role with affecting centrifugal force. (side note- the friction effect of the larger brake pads of the caliper are a factor in some power loss, but let's keep the explanation simple and pretend it doesn't)
That said, a front wheel drive car with a BBK kit installed that weighed exactly the same as the stock brake components would STILL lose HP because some of the rotor weight is now shifted to the outer diameter of the rotor. The larger the diameter of the rotor, the more power will be lost, even if the overall rotor weight is the same.
This is the best explanation of BBK physics I can give in laymans terms. Hope it was clear.
Last edited by RMMGS4; 01-12-06 at 01:43 AM.
#67
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Lexus cars are known for having some of the best brakes ever, not to mention the gs430 stops only feet after the zo6 in the 60-0, just upgrade the pads, lines and fluid.
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