THE LOW DOWN on the NEW TEIN CS
06-14-06, 03:23 AM
#1
THE LOW DOWN on the NEW TEIN CS
First off, to quell any rumors about the old EDFC stepper motors not fitting the new CS, here's a photo of the motor tried, tested and proven.
See the rest of that thread info here:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=220848
As far as the weight of the NOW steel tube body:
Front: 11.9 lbs
Rear: 13.9 lbs
Note: The rear coilover weighs more than the front because of the coil spring itself. Even though the rear coil is designed to be softer than the front, it is also longer by two coils, therefore it compresses more under the cars weight than would the front. At the same time, this is what adds to the weight of the rear coilover assembly.
The weighing was done on a calibrated scale and certified "accurate" with a stamp and date. No bathroom scales here.
Old TEIN CS Weight : TBD coming soon
Here's some quickie pics of them installed
Front
And Rear
TEST DRIVE
History
The locals up here in Nor Cal have been comparing coilover systems for quite some time now. What we have done is have several owners of different coilover suspensions allow us to test ride (and drive) each vehicle. We also test drove a bone stock GS as a comparison. Past participants in these tests have been Neo, Rominl, Jawnthen, GSing430 and myself.
The Course
We tested all these cars on the same road course that was laid out by my house. It included, street bumps, big dips, undulating surfaces, elevated manhole covers, freeway expansion joints, dummy buttons, grooved pavement, cloverleafs, railroad tracks and a plethora of other obstacles encountered during everyday driving.
My Credentials
From these tests I have had the privilege of testing out the TEIN CS, HA, RA, FLEX and stock. I won't go into detail on my impressions about these set ups. If you want that, just go to rominl's review on these various coilovers here: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=113963
I myself have had a "modified" TEIN RA with a custom spring set up for several years. After doing all the above comparisons I was quite happy with my existing set up. Each of the above set ups has their strengths and weaknesses. I don't think mine was necessarily the best, but the pluses and minuses of the other coilovers did not motivate me to make a change or spend the money.
About a year ago we installed the TEIN CS (original) on my wifes IS300.
That 34 page thread here: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-1st-gen-2001-2005/98807-my-is-story-day-1-a.html
I found this to be a very good set up on her car. Understand that the wifey wanted her car to have good handling, large 19"rims (on an IS), low profile tires, BUT she also wanted the smoothest ride possible. Talk about a contradiction in requirements !
Well in the end, I think we did accomplish the best set up available for her car. She doesn't complain about the ride at all. I might mention that this is the third suspension set up on her car. She complained on the first two.
I must also note that for those who think this is too much suspension for a lady driver, let me tell ya what I thought when she asked me why that flashing light with squiggly lines on her dash keeps coming on whenever she drives around a turn !
Last November, I went to SEMA and spoke to the TEIN Sales / Engineering rep about the new release of the TEIN CS. We spoke in detail on several subjects. I will spare you the details, but from one engineer to another, let's just say he convinced me that this was one coilover set up I had to try.
Having driven my wifes car, plus my previous test drives of the original CS, I had great expectations of this new set up.
Here are the differences I observed between OLD and NEW TEIN CS:
NOTE Damping settings go from 1 to 16, with 0 being firmest and 16 being softest.
OLD: Float - On the softest dampening setting (16), the car was way too floaty. On high speed freeway dips or bumps or expansion joints, I could get sea sick. Years ago, I probably logged 30k miles of driving (behind the wheel) of my dad's Cadillacs. I thought those tug boats were floaty, but the old TEIN CS in full soft mode gave the Caddy a run for the money.
NEW: On the softest setting, I found the ride cushy, but I don't think I would call it even a float. To me a float is hitting a single bump and the car would rise and fall a couple of times, or atleast it would feel like it did. The NEW CS would not bounce twice, it would just do one clean compression and rebound.
OLD: Contol - On the OLD CS, I would not feel comfortable or in control when driving at high speeds in turns or over big bumps/dips at full soft. The lean in turns and the bounce over rough surfaces, did not make me feel one with the road. I found that something atleast half way firm, say between 8 and 6 would make me feel secure.
NEW: Even at full soft I felt secure with the high speed stability of the car, I loved the way the ride and handling felt. It was still a bit soft for spirited driving, but surprisingly it handled well, with very little lean. Bump up the firmness to 6 or 8 and I'd say the ride is probably close to that of a M Series BMW and the handling probably similar as well.
OLD: Full hard on the OLD CS was something close to that of the lowest soft setting of the TEIN FLEX. I would prefer the FLEX in that mode over the CS from a handling perspective, but the CS would have it in the smootheness category.
NEW: Full hard on the NEW CS was noteably closer to the FLEX in handling, but when it came to ride smoothness, the compression and rebound were like nothing I have felt on any TEIN set up. It felt great going down AND up. I don't want to make assumptions, but I suspect the new MSV technology employed in the CS, appears to have something to do with it.
OLD: Overall Impression of the OLD CS is that it was a true "comfort shock" by design, it rivaled the stock GS set up and some may actually prefer its ride characteristics to the stock set up. It's strengths were also the cause for it's weaknesses. Trying to make the OLD CS into a handling set up meant running the dampening at or near maximum stiffness. In that mode, I would still take the FLEX or the HA at full soft dampening, over the CS in handling. Face it, the OLD CS is not really for those interested in tracking their cars or for highly spirited driving. The spring rates are a tad too soft and the shock valving underdamped at the lower settings. I only feel the settings between 0 and 10 are useful. Anything softer than 10, "for me" was un-useable.
NEW: By this point, you should not be surprised to hear me say the NEW CS is nearly the best of both worlds. At full soft the ride is quite acceptable, on typical road surfaces, I never felt any harshness or hard jolts. At low speeds, I was most impressed going over railroad tracks and cracks or expansion joints. I found myself aiming for them trying to see how much I could feel them and a smile came on my face each time I tried. I seriously feel there will be very few people who will find the ride un-acceptable. I will even dare say that if you don't like this set up, then there is probably nothing other than a stock suspension that will please you. Now going from full soft, up towards full hard, the key difference is what I will call "more feel" to the road. A lot of the road feel is now transferred to the steering wheel. This is a "GOOD" thing to performance drivers as "feeling" the road is how it should be. I personally would almost prefer driving full hard all the time.
Conclusion
TEIN has done a very good job improving on what was already a very good coilover. Where they have surpassed the old one is in increased handling and dampening control at all settings, while improving on the ride all along the way.
For the hard core driver the Flex and HA will still be good alternatives and are a no brainer choice for the track, but for the daily driver faced with real world road conditions, the NEW CS handling is quite respectable and on rougher street/freeway surfaces, I would say the NEW CS will actually outhandle the Flex or HA in those conditions.
And for a second impression, here's rominl's review of my set up here:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...74#post1952974
See the rest of that thread info here:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=220848
As far as the weight of the NOW steel tube body:
Front: 11.9 lbs
Rear: 13.9 lbs
Note: The rear coilover weighs more than the front because of the coil spring itself. Even though the rear coil is designed to be softer than the front, it is also longer by two coils, therefore it compresses more under the cars weight than would the front. At the same time, this is what adds to the weight of the rear coilover assembly.
The weighing was done on a calibrated scale and certified "accurate" with a stamp and date. No bathroom scales here.
Old TEIN CS Weight : TBD coming soon
Here's some quickie pics of them installed
Front
And Rear
TEST DRIVE
History
The locals up here in Nor Cal have been comparing coilover systems for quite some time now. What we have done is have several owners of different coilover suspensions allow us to test ride (and drive) each vehicle. We also test drove a bone stock GS as a comparison. Past participants in these tests have been Neo, Rominl, Jawnthen, GSing430 and myself.
The Course
We tested all these cars on the same road course that was laid out by my house. It included, street bumps, big dips, undulating surfaces, elevated manhole covers, freeway expansion joints, dummy buttons, grooved pavement, cloverleafs, railroad tracks and a plethora of other obstacles encountered during everyday driving.
My Credentials
From these tests I have had the privilege of testing out the TEIN CS, HA, RA, FLEX and stock. I won't go into detail on my impressions about these set ups. If you want that, just go to rominl's review on these various coilovers here: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=113963
I myself have had a "modified" TEIN RA with a custom spring set up for several years. After doing all the above comparisons I was quite happy with my existing set up. Each of the above set ups has their strengths and weaknesses. I don't think mine was necessarily the best, but the pluses and minuses of the other coilovers did not motivate me to make a change or spend the money.
About a year ago we installed the TEIN CS (original) on my wifes IS300.
That 34 page thread here: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-1st-gen-2001-2005/98807-my-is-story-day-1-a.html
I found this to be a very good set up on her car. Understand that the wifey wanted her car to have good handling, large 19"rims (on an IS), low profile tires, BUT she also wanted the smoothest ride possible. Talk about a contradiction in requirements !
Well in the end, I think we did accomplish the best set up available for her car. She doesn't complain about the ride at all. I might mention that this is the third suspension set up on her car. She complained on the first two.
I must also note that for those who think this is too much suspension for a lady driver, let me tell ya what I thought when she asked me why that flashing light with squiggly lines on her dash keeps coming on whenever she drives around a turn !
Last November, I went to SEMA and spoke to the TEIN Sales / Engineering rep about the new release of the TEIN CS. We spoke in detail on several subjects. I will spare you the details, but from one engineer to another, let's just say he convinced me that this was one coilover set up I had to try.
Having driven my wifes car, plus my previous test drives of the original CS, I had great expectations of this new set up.
Here are the differences I observed between OLD and NEW TEIN CS:
NOTE Damping settings go from 1 to 16, with 0 being firmest and 16 being softest.
OLD: Float - On the softest dampening setting (16), the car was way too floaty. On high speed freeway dips or bumps or expansion joints, I could get sea sick. Years ago, I probably logged 30k miles of driving (behind the wheel) of my dad's Cadillacs. I thought those tug boats were floaty, but the old TEIN CS in full soft mode gave the Caddy a run for the money.
NEW: On the softest setting, I found the ride cushy, but I don't think I would call it even a float. To me a float is hitting a single bump and the car would rise and fall a couple of times, or atleast it would feel like it did. The NEW CS would not bounce twice, it would just do one clean compression and rebound.
OLD: Contol - On the OLD CS, I would not feel comfortable or in control when driving at high speeds in turns or over big bumps/dips at full soft. The lean in turns and the bounce over rough surfaces, did not make me feel one with the road. I found that something atleast half way firm, say between 8 and 6 would make me feel secure.
NEW: Even at full soft I felt secure with the high speed stability of the car, I loved the way the ride and handling felt. It was still a bit soft for spirited driving, but surprisingly it handled well, with very little lean. Bump up the firmness to 6 or 8 and I'd say the ride is probably close to that of a M Series BMW and the handling probably similar as well.
OLD: Full hard on the OLD CS was something close to that of the lowest soft setting of the TEIN FLEX. I would prefer the FLEX in that mode over the CS from a handling perspective, but the CS would have it in the smootheness category.
NEW: Full hard on the NEW CS was noteably closer to the FLEX in handling, but when it came to ride smoothness, the compression and rebound were like nothing I have felt on any TEIN set up. It felt great going down AND up. I don't want to make assumptions, but I suspect the new MSV technology employed in the CS, appears to have something to do with it.
OLD: Overall Impression of the OLD CS is that it was a true "comfort shock" by design, it rivaled the stock GS set up and some may actually prefer its ride characteristics to the stock set up. It's strengths were also the cause for it's weaknesses. Trying to make the OLD CS into a handling set up meant running the dampening at or near maximum stiffness. In that mode, I would still take the FLEX or the HA at full soft dampening, over the CS in handling. Face it, the OLD CS is not really for those interested in tracking their cars or for highly spirited driving. The spring rates are a tad too soft and the shock valving underdamped at the lower settings. I only feel the settings between 0 and 10 are useful. Anything softer than 10, "for me" was un-useable.
NEW: By this point, you should not be surprised to hear me say the NEW CS is nearly the best of both worlds. At full soft the ride is quite acceptable, on typical road surfaces, I never felt any harshness or hard jolts. At low speeds, I was most impressed going over railroad tracks and cracks or expansion joints. I found myself aiming for them trying to see how much I could feel them and a smile came on my face each time I tried. I seriously feel there will be very few people who will find the ride un-acceptable. I will even dare say that if you don't like this set up, then there is probably nothing other than a stock suspension that will please you. Now going from full soft, up towards full hard, the key difference is what I will call "more feel" to the road. A lot of the road feel is now transferred to the steering wheel. This is a "GOOD" thing to performance drivers as "feeling" the road is how it should be. I personally would almost prefer driving full hard all the time.
Conclusion
TEIN has done a very good job improving on what was already a very good coilover. Where they have surpassed the old one is in increased handling and dampening control at all settings, while improving on the ride all along the way.
For the hard core driver the Flex and HA will still be good alternatives and are a no brainer choice for the track, but for the daily driver faced with real world road conditions, the NEW CS handling is quite respectable and on rougher street/freeway surfaces, I would say the NEW CS will actually outhandle the Flex or HA in those conditions.
And for a second impression, here's rominl's review of my set up here:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...74#post1952974
Last edited by RMMGS4; 06-14-06 at 04:34 AM.
Maybe down the road..
06-14-06, 06:02 AM
#5
Lexus Test Driver
That is exactly why I come here every day. I don't have the ability to get this setup but I read every word and if I were shopping, that's what I'd love to know.
Thanks
Thanks
Trending Topics
06-14-06, 08:27 AM
#8
Pole Position
Great write-up!
One question: is there noticeably less lean in the firmest setting of the new CS as compared to the old CS?
And, does the stiffest setting of the new CS rival the medium settings of the Flex?
One question: is there noticeably less lean in the firmest setting of the new CS as compared to the old CS?
And, does the stiffest setting of the new CS rival the medium settings of the Flex?
06-14-06, 09:16 AM
#9
Originally Posted by chuckb
for someone like me who just leaves my old CS set at 6 and 8, would I notice a benefit?
Originally Posted by KevinGS
Great write-up!
One question: is there noticeably less lean in the firmest setting of the new CS as compared to the old CS?
And, does the stiffest setting of the new CS rival the medium settings of the Flex?
One question: is there noticeably less lean in the firmest setting of the new CS as compared to the old CS?
And, does the stiffest setting of the new CS rival the medium settings of the Flex?
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...74#post1952974
you guys question are partially answered by my review in the official thread, you can go there for better reference to the old tein cs (what i have now), and also the flex.
chuck, when you say 6 and 8, do you mean on the soft side or stiff side? i assume it's on the stiff side? if so, i don't think you will benefit as much going to the new one. i think the new one shines more when comparing to the softer side of the old tein cs
for kevin, at the stiffest settings, i would actually say the two are more alike. first but comfortable. i think the new tein cs probably has a bit less lean than the old tein cs, but the difference isn't THAT much
imho the stiffest settings in the new tein cs is still softer than the tein flex in middle
06-14-06, 09:22 AM
#10
Thanks all.
I've got limited availability to answer right now. Rominl can continue to chime in with his input. I'll respond when I have a chance later on today.
I'll probably just re-edit this post at that time.
Enjoy
I've got limited availability to answer right now. Rominl can continue to chime in with his input. I'll respond when I have a chance later on today.
I'll probably just re-edit this post at that time.
Enjoy
06-14-06, 09:27 AM
#11
Pole Position
Originally Posted by rominl
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...74#post1952974
you guys question are partially answered by my review in the official thread, you can go there for better reference to the old tein cs (what i have now), and also the flex.
chuck, when you say 6 and 8, do you mean on the soft side or stiff side? i assume it's on the stiff side? if so, i don't think you will benefit as much going to the new one. i think the new one shines more when comparing to the softer side of the old tein cs
for kevin, at the stiffest settings, i would actually say the two are more alike. first but comfortable. i think the new tein cs probably has a bit less lean than the old tein cs, but the difference isn't THAT much
imho the stiffest settings in the new tein cs is still softer than the tein flex in middle
you guys question are partially answered by my review in the official thread, you can go there for better reference to the old tein cs (what i have now), and also the flex.
chuck, when you say 6 and 8, do you mean on the soft side or stiff side? i assume it's on the stiff side? if so, i don't think you will benefit as much going to the new one. i think the new one shines more when comparing to the softer side of the old tein cs
for kevin, at the stiffest settings, i would actually say the two are more alike. first but comfortable. i think the new tein cs probably has a bit less lean than the old tein cs, but the difference isn't THAT much
imho the stiffest settings in the new tein cs is still softer than the tein flex in middle
Yeah, I am not too concerned about the soft side of the settings comparisons...I wanted to know if I'd feel any real significant difference when I am on the stiffest setting with the new CS as compared to the old CS. It sounds like I might have a LITTLE less lean, but it's probably not going to be all that noticeable.
I'd probably have to go Flex for meaningful improvements, but then the Flex soft settings are still too stiff for my tastes. Oh well. Compromises, compromises...
06-14-06, 09:31 AM
#12
Originally Posted by KevinGS
Thanks, Rom...
Yeah, I am not too concerned about the soft side of the settings comparisons...I wanted to know if I'd feel any real significant difference when I am on the stiffest setting with the new CS as compared to the old CS. It sounds like I might have a LITTLE less lean, but it's probably not going to be all that noticeable.
I'd probably have to go Flex for meaningful improvements, but then the Flex soft settings are still too stiff for my tastes. Oh well. Compromises, compromises...
Yeah, I am not too concerned about the soft side of the settings comparisons...I wanted to know if I'd feel any real significant difference when I am on the stiffest setting with the new CS as compared to the old CS. It sounds like I might have a LITTLE less lean, but it's probably not going to be all that noticeable.
I'd probably have to go Flex for meaningful improvements, but then the Flex soft settings are still too stiff for my tastes. Oh well. Compromises, compromises...
and yes between the old and new tein cs, i think the stiffer side performance are about the same, with the new one might be a bit better but not something that warrant a change imho
06-14-06, 10:19 AM
#13
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by rominl
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...74#post1952974
chuck, when you say 6 and 8, do you mean on the soft side or stiff side? i assume it's on the stiff side? if so, i don't think you will benefit as much going to the new one. i think the new one shines more when comparing to the softer side of the old tein cs
chuck, when you say 6 and 8, do you mean on the soft side or stiff side? i assume it's on the stiff side? if so, i don't think you will benefit as much going to the new one. i think the new one shines more when comparing to the softer side of the old tein cs
