switch from L-Tuned to Tein CS
06-21-06, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by pavster
nate579, I agree that compared with the stock setup, L-Tuned is much better, but still the float is there. Maybe your highways are better than what we have here or something. When I go over a ridge in the road, the car goes way up, then way down, then up, then down. Like a boat on a wave. Float.
I do like the L-Tuned setup sometimes. Like in the city. That's why I want to know where in the range of Tein CS the L-Tuned compares.
Thanks!
-pavel
I do like the L-Tuned setup sometimes. Like in the city. That's why I want to know where in the range of Tein CS the L-Tuned compares.
Thanks!
-pavel
I guess it's only in perspective when you have driven cars that have had major suspension mods, ro cars that are very sporty to begin with. **** even a is300 feels considerably more sporty than a gs suspension wise.
06-21-06, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by RMMGS4
So When are you coming up to drive in my car????
Those comparing old CS with L-Tuned, the comparison is not going to be the same as New-CS with L-Tuned. The new CS does not float even at the softest setting. It appears the springs are stiffer than the old CS (which is a good thing), Henry chime in here if you agree.
At the full hard setting the NEW CS will be closer to the Flex at the softer settings.
The Flex has the edge on hard core handling, but sacrifices it in noise and comfort. With my New CS, the only GS set up I would take over mine in handling would be one that had the Flex PLUS all the Toms Chassis braces, the Front & Rear STB's, adjustable sways, A- arm bushings and MOST IMPORTANT the SUPERIOR Grip of the Michelin PS2.
Tire grip accounts for a lot when we are talking handling / grip. There are probably only 2 other street tires that can handle close to the PS2. If people are running Pirelli, Conti, Kuhmo, or All season tires, then I would say it almost defeats the purpose to use the Flex without using a Premium dry grip tire. If you are hard core into handling and you don't utilize the best performance tires available, then why use the Flex, HA or otherwise?
I'm pretty happy with my set-up, for me is the best balance of handling and smooth ride. With my 25 series rear tires, I think people would be surprised how smooth my ride is with the CS.
.
Those comparing old CS with L-Tuned, the comparison is not going to be the same as New-CS with L-Tuned. The new CS does not float even at the softest setting. It appears the springs are stiffer than the old CS (which is a good thing), Henry chime in here if you agree.
At the full hard setting the NEW CS will be closer to the Flex at the softer settings.
The Flex has the edge on hard core handling, but sacrifices it in noise and comfort. With my New CS, the only GS set up I would take over mine in handling would be one that had the Flex PLUS all the Toms Chassis braces, the Front & Rear STB's, adjustable sways, A- arm bushings and MOST IMPORTANT the SUPERIOR Grip of the Michelin PS2.
Tire grip accounts for a lot when we are talking handling / grip. There are probably only 2 other street tires that can handle close to the PS2. If people are running Pirelli, Conti, Kuhmo, or All season tires, then I would say it almost defeats the purpose to use the Flex without using a Premium dry grip tire. If you are hard core into handling and you don't utilize the best performance tires available, then why use the Flex, HA or otherwise?
I'm pretty happy with my set-up, for me is the best balance of handling and smooth ride. With my 25 series rear tires, I think people would be surprised how smooth my ride is with the CS.
.
It's funny that you mention PS2. I just switched to them from Avon M500, and man, I can immediately tell the inadequacy of the L-Tuned setup. With the Avons, the tires had some squirm to them as well, so it was hard to tell which was causing the float. With PS2, I know it's the shocks.
I'd love to get Flex, as I am getting all the braces as well, but I am worried I will regret it since my car is a commuter. Too bad there isn't a Tein coilover that would start in the middle setting of CS and end in the middle setting of Flex, as that sounds like exactly what I would want. Maybe the new CS on the hardest setting is where I should be.
Originally Posted by corkycal
you may look into keeping your springs and upgrading your shocks to bilstein sport. this will take away floaty sensation. I had this setup prior to coilovers. i wanted to have the capability of raising and lowering.
do a search on bilstein sports and you'll some good reading.
do a search on bilstein sports and you'll some good reading.
Thanks!
Last edited by pavster; 06-21-06 at 03:33 PM.
06-21-06, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Hollywood
I agree, I have l tuned shocks and more aggressive springs than L tuned springs and I still have a considerable amount of float.
I guess it's only in perspective when you have driven cars that have had major suspension mods, ro cars that are very sporty to begin with. **** even a is300 feels considerably more sporty than a gs suspension wise.
I guess it's only in perspective when you have driven cars that have had major suspension mods, ro cars that are very sporty to begin with. **** even a is300 feels considerably more sporty than a gs suspension wise.
06-25-06, 07:51 PM
#23
The L-Tuned shocks are the European spec 'stock' shocks, and its internal design is similar to the US stock shocks. It is a very basic twintube shock with a small piston.
the CS (and PSS) are monotube shocks with a large piston (40 - 45mm) and this design will absorb the road better ...
Therefore the ride of a CS / PSS will be superior compared to the stock shocks in more demanding situations.
the CS (and PSS) are monotube shocks with a large piston (40 - 45mm) and this design will absorb the road better ...
Therefore the ride of a CS / PSS will be superior compared to the stock shocks in more demanding situations.
07-01-06, 04:34 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by HKGS300
The L-Tuned shocks are the European spec 'stock' shocks, and its internal design is similar to the US stock shocks. It is a very basic twintube shock with a small piston.
the CS (and PSS) are monotube shocks with a large piston (40 - 45mm) and this design will absorb the road better ...
Therefore the ride of a CS / PSS will be superior compared to the stock shocks in more demanding situations.
the CS (and PSS) are monotube shocks with a large piston (40 - 45mm) and this design will absorb the road better ...
Therefore the ride of a CS / PSS will be superior compared to the stock shocks in more demanding situations.
07-02-06, 08:56 AM
#26
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Sounds like I am going to have to trade out my L-tuned stuff for the new CS. I just bought new Daizen front control arm bushings, tie rod ends and ball joints to help tighten up the front end. As soon as I absorb the cost of all that, I am going with the Tein's. Thanks to everyone for helping me spend more money 
.
.
07-10-06, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by RMMGS4
So When are you coming up to drive in my car????
Those comparing old CS with L-Tuned, the comparison is not going to be the same as New-CS with L-Tuned. The new CS does not float even at the softest setting. It appears the springs are stiffer than the old CS (which is a good thing), Henry chime in here if you agree.
At the full hard setting the NEW CS will be closer to the Flex at the softer settings.
The Flex has the edge on hard core handling, but sacrifices it in noise and comfort. With my New CS, the only GS set up I would take over mine in handling would be one that had the Flex PLUS all the Toms Chassis braces, the Front & Rear STB's, adjustable sways, A- arm bushings and MOST IMPORTANT the SUPERIOR Grip of the Michelin PS2.
Tire grip accounts for a lot when we are talking handling / grip. There are probably only 2 other street tires that can handle close to the PS2. If people are running Pirelli, Conti, Kuhmo, or All season tires, then I would say it almost defeats the purpose to use the Flex without using a Premium dry grip tire. If you are hard core into handling and you don't utilize the best performance tires available, then why use the Flex, HA or otherwise?
I'm pretty happy with my set-up, for me is the best balance of handling and smooth ride. With my 25 series rear tires, I think people would be surprised how smooth my ride is with the CS.
.
Those comparing old CS with L-Tuned, the comparison is not going to be the same as New-CS with L-Tuned. The new CS does not float even at the softest setting. It appears the springs are stiffer than the old CS (which is a good thing), Henry chime in here if you agree.
At the full hard setting the NEW CS will be closer to the Flex at the softer settings.
The Flex has the edge on hard core handling, but sacrifices it in noise and comfort. With my New CS, the only GS set up I would take over mine in handling would be one that had the Flex PLUS all the Toms Chassis braces, the Front & Rear STB's, adjustable sways, A- arm bushings and MOST IMPORTANT the SUPERIOR Grip of the Michelin PS2.
Tire grip accounts for a lot when we are talking handling / grip. There are probably only 2 other street tires that can handle close to the PS2. If people are running Pirelli, Conti, Kuhmo, or All season tires, then I would say it almost defeats the purpose to use the Flex without using a Premium dry grip tire. If you are hard core into handling and you don't utilize the best performance tires available, then why use the Flex, HA or otherwise?
I'm pretty happy with my set-up, for me is the best balance of handling and smooth ride. With my 25 series rear tires, I think people would be surprised how smooth my ride is with the CS.
.
First post here, I do a lot of reading and less posting, but know my way around a car.Anyway, tire choice for sure is a big deal when talking about handling. It's the only 4 things touching the ground! Next to R-compounds, the Michelin ps2, BFG KD, and those 140treadwear street tires are at the top.
I've been considering the CS for my GS470 project as well. I'm not too concerned about handling, as my supra takes care of that department at the track, but the CS should meet all my requirements for the GS from what I've gathered and from the help of some board members.
My only concern is the shock stroke at maxed lowering. From what it seems like, there are a few members that have them full slammed and still have a decent ride....so CS is still sounding like the ticket. Good luck to all.
Billy
07-10-06, 06:57 AM
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Hey Folks! A little update on my end. I've replaced my L-Tuned with the new CS on Saturday, and alghough I haven't driven a whole lot yet, I've had a chance to take them on back roads, the highways, as well as city, so I can give my initial impressions. First off, I set them to to 2 clicks from stiffest, and found them to be much less dramatic than L-Tuned. They absorbed bumps much better. I even took the car down a really bad dirt road and was surprised by how level and calm the car stayed -- with the L-Tuned I would have been hurting. I wanted to see how hard they could be, so I bumped the front to full hard, leaving the back at hard+2.
Next was the highway and city. At my current settings, the car is definitely less "smooth" than it was with L-tuned -- I can feel the finer details of the road now. It got a bit annoying on the less than ideal patches of road. Same thing on the city -- signifficantly more feel. Somehow I even feel that the shocks have gotten stiffer in the 50 miles that I've driven them. Is that typical "break-in" behavior, or am I just imagining things?
Anyway, I will have to play with softer settings. My biggest worry was that the CS would be too soft for me, and they definitely don't seem to be. So I am very happy. As far as answering my own question -- where on the CS adjustement range do L-Tuned fit, well, that's a hard one to answer since even on the hardest, they absorb bumps better than L-Tuned while feeling quite a bit stiffer in terms of spritited driving and road feel.
BTW, at the same time, I installed the Tom's front lower brace, and man oh man what a difference... am I driving my lexus or is this a BMW? The steering precision is just amazing. All I can say is WOW.
-pavel
Next was the highway and city. At my current settings, the car is definitely less "smooth" than it was with L-tuned -- I can feel the finer details of the road now. It got a bit annoying on the less than ideal patches of road. Same thing on the city -- signifficantly more feel. Somehow I even feel that the shocks have gotten stiffer in the 50 miles that I've driven them. Is that typical "break-in" behavior, or am I just imagining things?
Anyway, I will have to play with softer settings. My biggest worry was that the CS would be too soft for me, and they definitely don't seem to be. So I am very happy. As far as answering my own question -- where on the CS adjustement range do L-Tuned fit, well, that's a hard one to answer since even on the hardest, they absorb bumps better than L-Tuned while feeling quite a bit stiffer in terms of spritited driving and road feel.
BTW, at the same time, I installed the Tom's front lower brace, and man oh man what a difference... am I driving my lexus or is this a BMW? The steering precision is just amazing. All I can say is WOW.
-pavel
07-10-06, 11:24 AM
#29
Originally Posted by pavster
Hey Folks! A little update on my end. I've replaced my L-Tuned with the new CS on Saturday, and alghough I haven't driven a whole lot yet, I've had a chance to take them on back roads, the highways, as well as city, so I can give my initial impressions. First off, I set them to to 2 clicks from stiffest, and found them to be much less dramatic than L-Tuned. They absorbed bumps much better. I even took the car down a really bad dirt road and was surprised by how level and calm the car stayed -- with the L-Tuned I would have been hurting. I wanted to see how hard they could be, so I bumped the front to full hard, leaving the back at hard+2.
Next was the highway and city. A my current setttings, the car is definitely less "smooth" than it was with L-tuned -- I can feel the finer details of the road now. It got a bit annoying on the less than ideal patches of road. Same thing on the city -- signifficantly more feel. Somehow I even feel that the shocks have gotten stiffer in the 50 miles that I've driven them. Is that typical "break-in" behavior, or am I just imagining things?
Anyway, I will have to play with softer settings. My biggest worry was that the CS would be too soft for me, and they definitely don't seem to be. So I am very happy. As far as answering my own question -- where on the CS adjustement range do L-Tuned fit, well, that's a hard one to answer since even on the hardest, they absorb bumps better than L-Tuned while feeling quite a bit stiffer in terms of spritited driving and road feel.
BTW, at the same time, I installed the Tom's front lower brace, and man oh man what a difference... am I driving my lexus or is this a BMW? The steering precision is just amazing. All I can say is WOW.
-pavel
Next was the highway and city. A my current setttings, the car is definitely less "smooth" than it was with L-tuned -- I can feel the finer details of the road now. It got a bit annoying on the less than ideal patches of road. Same thing on the city -- signifficantly more feel. Somehow I even feel that the shocks have gotten stiffer in the 50 miles that I've driven them. Is that typical "break-in" behavior, or am I just imagining things?
Anyway, I will have to play with softer settings. My biggest worry was that the CS would be too soft for me, and they definitely don't seem to be. So I am very happy. As far as answering my own question -- where on the CS adjustement range do L-Tuned fit, well, that's a hard one to answer since even on the hardest, they absorb bumps better than L-Tuned while feeling quite a bit stiffer in terms of spritited driving and road feel.
BTW, at the same time, I installed the Tom's front lower brace, and man oh man what a difference... am I driving my lexus or is this a BMW? The steering precision is just amazing. All I can say is WOW.
-pavel
Good response. My impressions in general are the same. To put it simply, the CS shocks do a VERY good job at dampening.
Originally Posted by pavster
BTW, at the same time, I installed the Tom's front lower brace, and man oh man what a difference... am I driving my lexus or is this a BMW? The steering precision is just amazing. All I can say is WOW.
-pavel
The Tom's brace WILL add and transmit some of the road surface irregularities up through the steering wheel as well as to the butt-o-meter. People need to factor this into your review of the CS. I'm glad you mentioned this added mod, but since it was stated at the end, some readers will loose sight of that mod as a variable that affects your impressions.
Note: I do have all the TOM's lower braces front and rear, plus I have front and rear STB's, Daizen control arm bushings & adjustable sways. So I have factored in your impressions when I made my comments. Your WOW factor will continue as you add these pieces.
Originally Posted by pavster
Next was the highway and city. A my current setttings, the car is definitely less "smooth" than it was with L-tuned -- I can feel the finer details of the road now. It got a bit annoying on the less than ideal patches of road. Same thing on the city -- signifficantly more feel.
-pavel
I like the way you have articulated this point.. I couldn't of said it better myself.
When you put the CS on the full soft settings, you should feel most of these "less smooth" impressions go away. The car will also be more of a luxury type ride. Unfortunately what goes along with that will be a little more mushiness when hitting bumps at high speeds. This impression is less stable than compared to harder settings. I don't want this to be confused with float, as the car will "move" a bit more, but technically you still will feel that you are in control of the car.
Example:
I did a sweeping freeway turn at about 100mph. I accidently set the EDFC to full soft when I intended an almost full hard set up. Well,so I was surprised at that speed that when I hit some rough expansion joints in the middle of that turn, the car bounced a lot more than I would have expected. I was still in full control of the car and never felt out of control or loosing grip. I must also note there were two other people in the car.
At a harder setting I would have felt more secure, but atleast I know at full soft, that the car doesn't become un-controllable either.
For those that are still more hard core drivers and want to go beyond say a BMW like ride, I would say the new Tein Flex coming out would be one to consider.
Last edited by RMMGS4; 07-10-06 at 11:49 AM.
07-10-06, 12:08 PM
#30
GREAT writeup Pavel! I've been waiting for one that explained it this way. I'm about to replace my L-Tuned with Tein CS (original gold) THIS WEEK. It's also good to know that you were on Mass. roads, which are not as good as Cali. roads.
Sounds like this is going to be great at mid settings, and when it's time to boogie, set to stiff.
Sounds like this is going to be great at mid settings, and when it's time to boogie, set to stiff.