al503

Well, if your brakes ever do fade at the worst time, hopefully there will be a run out or guard rail to catch ya so you can put in a claim.

So, the BBK is not for you. Understood. However, just because you may never need it, doesn't mean someone else won't.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i hate to say, but i don't find brakes on the 2is that impressive at all. i drove it at the lexus event, and only 15 mins into the event (at 9:30) the brakes were fading bad already. same with the ones on the gs430.

and before you ask, i have gs400 and sc430. the gs400 with ap racing brakes and sc430 with stoptech. so i know what good brakes are and what bad ones are. the gs400 stock ones were garbage to begin with. the sc430 ones were good, but as usual, after long distance drive, fade bad

moreover, if you get aftermarket wheels, usually larger and possibly heavier, the stock brakes might fade faster as well.

to me, getting brakes for these cars are almost a must already, especially if i get wheels.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

hardly get used? last time i checked, every time you brake you used the brakes, i consider them highly consumed stuff in any case, all i can say is i drove two is350 at the lexus event and both of them had bad brake fade and was far from my standard of "good" when it comes to braking. even when i slammed on the brakes it didn't stop. comparing to the stoptech on my sc430 they are nothing. on my sc430 if you slam on the brakes you better be prepared coz' it will choke you. i got none of that on the is350 brakes. same with my wife, she is the daily driver of the sc430 and she wasn't impressed by the is350 brakes at all. by comparison, we were more impressed with the 3 series brakes.

in any case, probably mods are not really for you i guess, but 10% of the value of the car is nothing for mods imho. look into the GS forums and you see tons of people buying their cars for maybe 30k and then spend 30k on mods, that's nothing special. it's more about passion on your car and everyone is different. i don't think that would be a good reason for you to say it's an "excuse" for someone to spend 4k (most likely more) on their car. we all try to respect other members here

like i said in my other example, a simple 350 drives from socal to norcal, the brakes on BOTH my gs400 and sc430 were fading already. far from a good setup imho

rys

By hardly get used, I don't mean at all, I mean the mod isn't hardly justified for most people. The car already comes with brakes, so by "mod being used", I mean, the extra braking potential from the mod being utilized.

Also, I miscalculated, it's actually 20% of the price of the vehicle. I know all about modding, I sank $10k into a Mitsubishi Eclipse that was probably worth about $14k at the time.

It's all about cost versus benefit. If you are a big baller and have $80k to throw into your IS350, then more power to you.

As far as brakes being impressive. Well. I said mine are adequete. I have no idea how you drive, but I've got a good guess on how. If you're a very aggressive driver, the street might as well be a canyon for you, so I can see how your brakes would fade.

I allow that it does differ from person to person, I'm just making a statement for the typical IS owner - and that is that these Endless brand brakes are a waste of money. If I was looking at a BBK, I'd go Stoptech for the price.

-Brian

uschardcor

rominl you're making BBKs like the only solution.

my 2is breaks are still subpar imo. if i need better stopping power i'll change out pads. but a BBK is just not worth it for street use. i don't care how far you are driving or in what conditions its overkill.

CRB

To the people who are saying, "They aren't necessary...yack, yada, yada, yack" I would say that big brake kits are as much a cosmetic upgrade that also have a functional component to them much like buying an aftermarket exhaust or whatnot. Why do people often opt for relatively pricy Brembos when less expensive but equally fuctional kits exist. The NAME! Brembo is the company that Original Equipment Manufacters (won't let me say OEMs<<censored) turn to for brake technology.

Personally, IMO nothing sets off a set of HRE ( or I-forged, et. al.) wheels like a BBK with the crossed drilled rotors. ( yeah I no crossdrilling does squat, so don't go yack, yada again) However, to my mind is subtle form of bling with class. Similarly, somebody with some huge chromed, forged-multipiece 20" wheels ( yeah real fuctional there ) with the shriveled little stock rotors looks like a total tool.


Also, if you are have bought a BBK in the past and regret dropping the coin, that doesn't preclude somebody from spending the money and enjoying looking at those gleaming platter sized disks every day and considering money well spent. I saw a Ferrari Modena a while back with brakes (stock too I think) that were just gorgeous.

uschardcor

^^ probably the most incoherant post of the day. yes BBKs have a functionality. a turbo the size of a watermelon has a functionality too you don't see people strapping them to cars...typically.

the point is if you pay 3000 for a front bbk and never even race then you're wasting about 2900 bucks. pads and tires will increase stopping performance greater than any BBK.

BBKs to have a very strong aesthetic value, but you aren't paying for that. w/ wheels, body kits, etc you are paying for r&d construction but mostly aesthetics. so if you wantt o dress up behind your wheels go for it but a set of 3k endless bbks is overkill. if you have the money thats your fortune but that doesn't make it a logical decision.

rys

Agree, and it's $3700 x 2. ($7400)

Such a waste of money. Stoptech for BBKs, or just better pads. Race pads won't fade at higher temperatures, but the trade off is that the pad performance is reduced until the pads heat up.

-Brian

rys

Also, I forgot to mention the increase cost in replacement parts. After the BBK installation, how's $800-1600 sound for a brake job? ($200-400 per wheel, rotors, pads, etc) Cost varies based on brand. Yes, I am aware that almost all BBKs are designed with the aluminum hat, but it doesn't make the actual disc part of the rotor replacement all that much cheaper.

-Brian

al503

What does logic have to do with 90% of the mods out there?

rys

A spoiler and body kit does not increase the TCO (total cost of ownership), big brake kit, not so much.

Edit for clarity: I mean base TCO, brake maintenence is required, so if a brake job is $400 and you increase the cost of your brake job to $600, it will cost more over total length of ownership to own the car than before the modification. - Of course the TCO will go up if you factor in the cost of the modification itself, this is true for any mod.

-Brian

suka4thong

iTrader: (9)

wow i want one... does anybody know difference between brake/caliper size for 250/350??

CRB

In response I would say that my post was quite coherent and my point clear. It had to be because even uschardcor seems to have understood it. Since you mentioned "incoheRANT" (sp) (almost a Fruedian-slip type mispelling, BTW.):

1. I never said modifying cars, in any way, had anything to do with logic.

2. Watermelon-sized turbos are quite an interesting visual... but hardly relevant here.

3. Saying that somebody else wasted thier OWN money is a very slippery slope. And most luxury car owners understand this from first hand experience.

Lets Drive

iTrader: (3)

If they were running stock brake fluid, then it probably wasn't the brakes, but rather the fluid heating up as it tried to compensate for the increase in heat. If it doesn't do the job, then obviously the brakes will begin to see fade, then warp, but it doesn't mean they directly were inadequate. One of the local shops runs competition miatas, and they simply use brake fluid with a higher boiling point for their track cars, and get along fine without fading the brakes in a similar manner. I've seen the same with toyota supras. On the street, I'd be hard pressed to believe anyone would consistently come close enough to wearing their actual brakes, so it would make sense to do cheaper/effective upgrades, before bigger ones. SS lines alone add to better feel, where most people believe the sluggish feel (if you can even feel anything on the IS), is attributed to the brakes themselves.

What tires were you using on the SC vs the IS? and what type of brake lines? Bigger brakes typically do not stop the car any faster.

al503

Many times, replacement parts for aftermarket bbk's are cheaper than stock parts. IE: stoptech uses common fmsi pad sizes. You can get them for the same prices as most stock pads if not less than OEM prices. Replacement rotors (just the rotors, not the hats) for their two piece rotors can be had for about $200 a pair. I don't know how much the stock rotors cost but I'd wager that it is a lot more than $200 a pair.