Panerai127

now we talking bro.. So Ed, CS v2 that I have would do the job? No need to sell and get Flex or PSS? And no need to get upper front and rear STB's either? But if I only get sways for now and not get lower braces and 6-links? How would that be as far as handling compared to M5? Sorry to bug you. That would be my last question, sir.. lol As far as the wheels I am thinking staggered 20" or maybe 19" Axis Milano or MRR HR2 wheels with 235/35 and 275/30.. Those look great and good quality wheels for the money

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

Sways will make more of a difference in turns of body roll, and its noticeable too. I dont think I have seen anyone complain about their sway bars, no matter if they're daizen or TRD, not work. The braces and sways improve handling, but in a different way. The sway helps aid in flatter cornerning, where as the braces will keep your chassis stiffer/rigid so your car will be more predictable.

lexforlife

iTrader: (7)

18 or 19in if you are perf minded , 20's are learge and although looks sweet on the gs will hamper perf

yes you need at least a front upper strut tower bar and yes you can retain the cs but again DO NOT expect miracles from them, get some sways are you will be impressed


make sure you get that alignment done and make sure your front toe setting is between +3-+7 deg toe in on either side , total toe should not be more the +.15deg i am lowered 2 1/2 inches but yet my camber up front - a hare out of spec at -.09deg can you beleive that

Panerai127

Hey Ed, I am so frustrated. I went to Longwood to Z-tech, they specialize in our cars, the main guy there has a LS430. He could not feel the loose steering response I feel, as I was in the car with him, I don't know if I am too picky, but I doubt it. He told me my Alignment is off, even though I got it done 1.5 month ago at Tires Plus. He wanted me to fix the alignment first, before he can look at my car further. So he took it across the street to Mazda Dealer, they have Hunter DSP400 alignment machine and they could not do the alignment, due to that the machine is telling them they need some OEM tools to do alignment correct, so I am woundering if Tires Plus I went to did it right and they had those tools. I found alignment report that was printed after my alignment, I tried to upload JPEG on to gallaries, but had problems?! Ed, here are the specs after the alignment:

Front:
Caster: Left: 7.0 Right 8.1
Camber: Left -0.6 Right 0.2
Toe: Left: .10 Right: .35 Total: .45

Rear:
Camber: Left: -0.6 Right: -1.0
Toe: Left: .10 Right: .10 Total: .20
Thrust Angle: 0.0

I don't know how to read this, let me know if this was ok. I don't feel the car is pulling, just my steering wheel when centered is a bit to the right, I had this issue before my suspension mods, too. Tires Plus did Alignment 3 times and each time it would go out of wack and steering would become a bit to the right when centered? I don't know what a hell is wrong with car. Frustrating after all money spent, still problems. I was driving on I-4 to Orlando going 90mph, steering had a shimmy, I think I need balancing also. Everytime I hit a bump, I felt my steering go loose and felt like steering response disconect from the wheels. Definetly something is still wrong. I will go see mech in Orlando that works for Lexus stealership, if he does not fix it. I am going to take 4 hour ride to see you Ed. I just have no time for these little problems, and just want to fix this car already and enjoy it. I also have a feeling that the mech that installed my Daizen bushings and CS coilovers did not torgue all the bolts, I asked him if he torgued everything up to specs, he said it is all tight and torgueing steel to steel does not realy matter?!

lexforlife

iTrader: (7)

okay lets see if i can help a brotha out


firstly with the alignment specs you just posted its no wonder your car drives like crap, who did the alignment , stevie wonder

all joking aside you need to goto a shop that specializes in high perf alignments

okay

#1 , your castor reading on the pass side is way to positive , its no wonder you are getting a pull to the left hence why your steering wheel is tilted to the right , your castor should be in the 7.3 to 7.6 range

#2 your toe is way out and toe is a major contributer to killing tires and destroying a good susp setup . how can you have +.10 on drivers side and +.35 on pass for a total toe of .+45 , your pass side is muting all your steering input hence why the car feels loose... your toe should be equal or within a tick of each other at between +.03 to +.07 for a total toe of no mare +.15 but perfered at around +.12.. these cars need just alittle toe in not much since you have donte some upgrades so your toe is not changing much under road load

#3 your camber needs to be as close to equal as possible for the car will tend to drift in the direction with less camber even if it means adding some to the -.02 that you have .. ideally you would like to see arounfd -.08 and either side

the rear numbers look great

i assure you once you get a good alignment to the above specs your car will feel like it should and you will be grinning but be quick abouth this for with your specs you are killing your tires fast

Panerai127

hey Ed thanks a lot man.. I never knew that it is so involved, when it comes to alighnment. Damn all the alignmnets I did, in no name places, just to save money on all the cars I had. I am woundering how off they were and if those cars would drive better if alignment was done right by a good shop. Well I went back to Tires Plus since I already went there 4 times before to do my alignment, and advised him about what you said and what specs my alignmnet should be. They said, we go by a computer and what the specs are for OEM, and they try to get it close to it?! Wow, this is crazy. I was like, look at my results that you guys did last time and showed them the print out that they gave me when I did my alignment, with numbers in the above thread, and pointed that out to that they are way out of wack and my tires would wear out fast and this alignment is now damaging my tires and that is why the car pulls and steering is not perfectly straight, they were like, well you then have to take it to performance shop to do this, I was thinking to myself, why wouldn't they just tell me that before hand, and say your car is lowered and we would not be able to do the job right and you will have problems. Now I realize how many people outhere are just like me, before Ed shined some light on this for me, go to these kind of places and get their cars fixed, and their tires get worned out fast and uneven and they could never enjoy the car the way it was designed to drive!!

So they put my car on the lift and after trying to adjust it as good as they can. They said that the camber arm is the best that they can adjust it to, there is no more room, here are the new results:

Front:
Caster: Left: 8.4 Right 8.5
Camber: Left -1.3 Right -1.0
Toe: Left: 0.05 Right: 0.10 Total: 0.15

Rear:
Camber: Left: -1.5 Right: -1.7
Toe: Left: 0.05 Right: 0.15 Total: 0.20
Thrust Angle: 0.0

So caster is now out of spec and but toe is much better but not equal and camber is not equal and out of spec!! This so weird, the car drive different now with this spec, Ed you are so right, that alignment has to do so much with the way the car drive. I drove for like 5 miles so far, it feels better on the loose steering part but now mu steering wheel is a bit to the right centered!!! These guys should have just told me that I need to go to performance shop that do these kind of cars lowered this on first place and me not wasting my money!! I spoke to Wringo and he told me to go see Nix & Black Automotive in Orlando where he gets his alignment, they do lowered and modified cars there and have old school alignment machine and should do the job. I called damn while sitting at Tires Plus and set up an appointment for tomorrow 9am to drive outhere and told them I would bring Ed's specs to get the car aligned to those specs, hopefully I will be set. Ed thanks alot. I thought alignment is much simpler then that. I would just be driving arround in the car thinking that this car is so bad and these tires are so bad while thinkiing my alignment is on point.. Ed, thanks for all your help.. I will post the results tomorrow..

lilprince

What did everyone that have the Daizen Sway Bars set the rear at and why just wondering what would be better Thanks

natnut

If the rear tyres are the same width as the fronts, then the rear bar should use the middle hole. If you go with a staggered setup, ie rears wider then the front, then go for the hole closer to the center of the bar.

ARISTO 161

iTrader: (3)

just so you guys know, trd has two versions
the Sportivo "white" sways
and the Race "blue" sways
i dont know how each is in comparison to the daisen, but rominl says trd is more harsh, but are you talking about the white or blue trd? i forgot if you posted about it earlier, i know for sure the blues are as stiff as you can get though.
personally, i have the blue's the race sways from trd. but i also have the tein RA's to match, but thats for my track needs. i think the only one with a stiffer setup is lex for life. ;p
anywho, i don't submit my pole, i believe you should get what your application demands

DetMich1

I read the entire thread and I could not find anywhere in it where the original poster said that the Daizens seemed subjectively worse. To the contrary he said the Daizens were more comfortable and that with them "The car felt very responsive and alive" . He said the TRD's were too stiff and made the car harder to drive. He did say with the TRD's he THOUGHT he was faster but even that was proven wrong by the stopwatch. It only felt faster because he was being thrown around in his seat by the overly harsh set-up.
He never said the Daizens handle worse, not once.

natnut

Oops, I guess I wasn't clear enough. I agree 100% with what you said but used different words to say the same thing. If you haven't noticed, I agree with Navaz and I'm using the Daizen's.

engin_ear

iTrader: (1)

This is SUCH a great thread. You guys have articulated a whole bunch of stuff really well. Thanks.

KevGS, really well said. I'm in the same boat now, having Tein CS & Daizen sways & control arm bushings. The ride is not Lexus anymore up here in the Northeast. I sympathize with the concept of the suspension being stiff enough that you might as well take it up a notch. I've contemplated the same thing. But I think it's playing with fire at this point. I think you may wind up with a suspension that's much more punishing here in the Northeast. but not that much better in handling. I happen to think CS in full stiff is awesome, I can't deal with any stiffer. I'd like to put stiffer sways on and cut body roll more, but from what's been said here, it won't result in significant performance gain, and may put the car over the comfort tolerance threshold where roads are poor.
I'm not really fond of the CS on soft for cruising, because I think the addition of the CA bushings makes you feel joints in the road more anyway. There is apparently no setting where you can revert back to less road feel.

I'm with you completely man - my next car may be a BMW, unless Lexus decides that they are going to do a real sports version, instead of half-baked.

Jerry

3dog

iTrader: (1)

Just my 2 cents.

I've had the Daizen Sways for 3 and a half years and loved them.

I've got pretty stiff coilovers JIC MAGIC FLT2A
And all of the Tom's braces.

I ended up with a set of TRD Sways (long story and doesn't matter here).

Since I like a car that corners flat and I kept reading that the TRD's cornered flatter than the Daizens I decided to try the TRD's out.

As it turns out I like the TRD's better. Now some of you say they ride harsh.
I would not say that at all. I don't think harsh should even be used to describe the ride.
All I can say is I like how the car handles better now with the TRD's.
I don't plan on ever going back to the Daizens and ended up selling them.

My wife has the Tom's braces on her car along with the Daizen Sways and is quite happy along with the Stock Springs and Shocks. She likes that cushy Lexus ride but also wants the car to stay somewhat flat in the corners.


I will say I think both the TRD's and Daizens are far superior to the stock sways.



Ivan
3dog

engin_ear

iTrader: (1)

So Ivan,
Would you say your car rides ANY harder over bumps with the TRD sways (I assume you have the Blue ones) vs. the Daizens?

I'm thinking of switching.

3dog

iTrader: (1)

I've got the blue ones. And I don't think the car rides any harder over bumps than with the Daizens. Please keep in mind that my wife thinks I had a very hard ride when I had the Daizens on. I think it is because of my coilovers, I've got them set on the max adjustment.

I think there is less body lean on curves with the TRD. The cushy Lexus ride is gone for sure but I love how this car goes thru the twisties.

I understand now how there was a big debate when the Daizens came out.
Some guys said the Daizens were more comfortable than the TRD's and performed just as good. Well the guys with the TRD's did not mind how the TRD's rode and they liked how they handled so the debate was on.

I am sure that some will say the TRD's have a harder ride.
I don't really want to argue about that as everyone has a different comfort level.
Certainly very few on this site would like where I have my coilovers set.
I do and I love driving fast thru a twisty road.


My wife and I both have 1999 GS 400's and I can't stand the cushy ride she gets with the stock shocks and springs. She is not a big fan of how my car rides. So each of us has to decide on our own how we want the car to be.
I had heard the TRD's would make the ride way to hard. I decided to try them and if it was to hard I would put the Daizens back on, well that didn't happen.



I love my TRD sways