How to eliminate ABS?
06-08-07, 10:13 AM
#16
I've got news for EVERYONE here... if you are stopping hard enough to kick in the ABS with the stock stuff, then putting 15" rotors, 8 piston calipers, stainless lines, DOT15 brake fluid, a monster master cylinder, and replacing your leg with a 1 ton hydraulic ram won't make your car stop any faster...
if the ABS engages, you have exceeded the braking ability of your tire, not your caliper/rotor...
if the ABS engages, you have exceeded the braking ability of your tire, not your caliper/rotor...
06-08-07, 11:03 AM
#17
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I've got news for EVERYONE here... if you are stopping hard enough to kick in the ABS with the stock stuff, then putting 15" rotors, 8 piston calipers, stainless lines, DOT15 brake fluid, a monster master cylinder, and replacing your leg with a 1 ton hydraulic ram won't make your car stop any faster...
if the ABS engages, you have exceeded the braking ability of your tire, not your caliper/rotor...
if the ABS engages, you have exceeded the braking ability of your tire, not your caliper/rotor...
Well...In that case, perhaps it's not the ABS that's keeping me from stopping 'on a dime'. Perhaps it's just the super-soft brakes on the SC in concert with the luxury suspension - allowing so much extra lateral travel as the weight of the car get's shifted forward in a breaking manuver. Though, I don't know if that's enough to account for why the car won't even grab asphalt when stopping from a slow roll down my driveway.
It just doesn't seem to matter what the situation, speed, road condition or distance - I can't seem to get the brakes to bite. There's so much of a lag in response and a general unwillingness from the car to give me a good head-whipping grab of a stop. Now, is that just a by-product of ABS, or brakes that just don't cut it? Because my wife's Eclipse has ABS but will always allow you to stomp on the brake and get that pavement grabbing, immediate head-yank of a stop.
06-08-07, 11:16 AM
#18
Well...In that case, perhaps it's not the ABS that's keeping me from stopping 'on a dime'. Perhaps it's just the super-soft brakes on the SC in concert with the luxury suspension - allowing so much extra lateral travel as the weight of the car get's shifted forward in a breaking manuver. Though, I don't know if that's enough to account for why the car won't even grab asphalt when stopping from a slow roll down my driveway.
It just doesn't seem to matter what the situation, speed, road condition or distance - I can't seem to get the brakes to bite. There's so much of a lag in response and a general unwillingness from the car to give me a good head-whipping grab of a stop. Now, is that just a by-product of ABS, or brakes that just don't cut it? Because my wife's Eclipse has ABS but will always allow you to stomp on the brake and get that pavement grabbing, immediate head-yank of a stop.
It just doesn't seem to matter what the situation, speed, road condition or distance - I can't seem to get the brakes to bite. There's so much of a lag in response and a general unwillingness from the car to give me a good head-whipping grab of a stop. Now, is that just a by-product of ABS, or brakes that just don't cut it? Because my wife's Eclipse has ABS but will always allow you to stomp on the brake and get that pavement grabbing, immediate head-yank of a stop.
go do some panic style test stops in a parking lot somewhere... just an example, but, say you are going 20, and panic braking engages ABS immediately - that means you are outbraking your tires... now, incrementally, get faster with your tests... if say, at 60 mph, panic braking doesn't immediately engage ABS until, maybe 45 mph, the ABS engages... that means that there is room for improvement in the brake system (pads, rotors, calipers, etc) Every car will have it's limits as to maximum braking force, you just have to decide how good you really want yours...
06-08-07, 11:23 AM
#19
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do you own both cars? NO. ok my sc400 has 58000 miles and the sc300 has 125000 miles .both has toyota brake pads from my experience with boths of my sc400it is logical and sorry the brake setup on these cars are not the same so NO both cars are not the same
06-08-07, 11:38 AM
#20
Intermediate
Thread Starter
well, your soft brake pedal can be caused by aerated brake fluid - a good fluid exchange and bleeding will help... brake pad selection also plays a part in pedal feel... our somewhat undersized rotors definitely don't help and somewhat heavy car is definitely a detriment...
go do some panic style test stops in a parking lot somewhere... just an example, but, say you are going 20, and panic braking engages ABS immediately - that means you are outbraking your tires... now, incrementally, get faster with your tests... if say, at 60 mph, panic braking doesn't immediately engage ABS until, maybe 45 mph, the ABS engages... that means that there is room for improvement in the brake system (pads, rotors, calipers, etc) Every car will have it's limits as to maximum braking force, you just have to decide how good you really want yours...
go do some panic style test stops in a parking lot somewhere... just an example, but, say you are going 20, and panic braking engages ABS immediately - that means you are outbraking your tires... now, incrementally, get faster with your tests... if say, at 60 mph, panic braking doesn't immediately engage ABS until, maybe 45 mph, the ABS engages... that means that there is room for improvement in the brake system (pads, rotors, calipers, etc) Every car will have it's limits as to maximum braking force, you just have to decide how good you really want yours...
Yeah, I will definately be doing a complete fluid flush for starters, followed by a better grade of pad and possibly sloted or drilled rotors. I'd like to switch to braded lines in the future too.
What type of pad do you recommend? Green Stuff, ceramics, etc.?
06-08-07, 11:51 AM
#21
ceramics are great for one heat cycle... horrible after that... EBC, Hawk, and others all make good stuff... you are going to want a semi-metallic pad or one with like qualities... ceramic are best for the minivan that wants to be quiet and very low dust... braided lines may help, though in experience, you won't get any better braking performance, just a stiffer pedal...
06-08-07, 12:07 PM
#23
Lexus Test Driver
Thanks for clearing that up Mark, I did not know the V8 was lighter than my I6. Good stuff 
06-08-07, 12:08 PM
#24
Intermediate
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06-08-07, 04:34 PM
#25
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I have LS400 rotors/calipers. But the abs harness for the LS400 calipers don't clip on to the sc300 from what I saw when swapping everything out. but my abs still works? thought it was odd at first but never asked anyone about it until I saw this thread. so who wants to clarify abs with ls400 brakes.
06-11-07, 12:24 PM
#27
Lexus Test Driver
I'm not sure about NA Supra vs. SC300 though.
06-11-07, 12:49 PM
#28
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There may be some points to look into before going the extreme and killing the ABS system. At 20MPH you should stop on a dime and get change.
When I bought my 98 SC400 back in November, I would swear the breaks were soooo bad they would kill me. I got a full 4 wheel alignment a week later, and giving the new breaks and tires some time to break in, the car stops perfectly. From what I can recall, the ABS kicked in only once ever for me. It was during snow, and I was leaving a gas station. It kept me from tapping a pole. My other Car's ABS system would have smacked me into the pole.
In comparison, the SC ABS systems are great if you hold steady on the breaks.
In your situation, you should have felt some serious deceleration force when you panic stopped like that. These cars may be 3700 pounds empty, but they break as if they're 2700 pound cars. (Previous car 2001 Celica, to which I thought had awesome breaks...)
When I bought my 98 SC400 back in November, I would swear the breaks were soooo bad they would kill me. I got a full 4 wheel alignment a week later, and giving the new breaks and tires some time to break in, the car stops perfectly. From what I can recall, the ABS kicked in only once ever for me. It was during snow, and I was leaving a gas station. It kept me from tapping a pole. My other Car's ABS system would have smacked me into the pole.
In comparison, the SC ABS systems are great if you hold steady on the breaks.
In your situation, you should have felt some serious deceleration force when you panic stopped like that. These cars may be 3700 pounds empty, but they break as if they're 2700 pound cars. (Previous car 2001 Celica, to which I thought had awesome breaks...)
06-11-07, 01:11 PM
#29
Zombie Slayer
1st, you have no idea what I do or do not own, nor do you have any idea what I have worked on. So, throw that illegitimate argument in the toilet.
I am quite aware that the brake setup on each car is different. That is the whole basis for this current line of discussion and the basis for my point.....the smaller 300 brakes DO NOT work better than the larger (albeit by a small margin) 400 brakes.
There was either something wrong with the brakes on your 400 or there is something upgraded on the 300. It's that simple.
Also, please try to review your posts as this one mentioned above is borderline incoherent. If you do wish to support a point, do so in an intelligent, respectful manner. This way, others can fully read and understand the points you are making. You will also need to MAKE a point, which you did not do, to support your belief.
I can make a statement that a stock Civic I own is faster than the new IS. Doesn't make it true just because I say so.
Tell me why the 300 brakes better. Show me details supporting why this is so.
06-11-07, 06:22 PM
#30
I have LS400 rotors/calipers. But the abs harness for the LS400 calipers don't clip on to the sc300 from what I saw when swapping everything out. but my abs still works? thought it was odd at first but never asked anyone about it until I saw this thread. so who wants to clarify abs with ls400 brakes.