which sway bars?
11-23-08, 01:03 AM
#16
whiteline also makes the sways for the supra and SC.
sway bars are useful but a bandaid solution for body roll problems. if you have proper suspension and proper geometry setup you should be able to almost get away with even tracking a car with stock sway bars.
sway bars are NOT a solution to preventing body roll.
google. roll centre and find article written by gillespie, john c. dixon, and fred puhn. after you read them and if you know anything about physics at all, and not just a way to spend money by swiping your credit card, you can figure out a way to improve handling and bosy roll with out significant sway bar upgrade.
sway bars are not just another part that you can just upgrade to improve performance like bushings. there are negative and positive aspects to upgrading to bigger sway bars. if you get a sway bar that is really stiff it can actually reduce your cars handling capability.
sway bars are useful but a bandaid solution for body roll problems. if you have proper suspension and proper geometry setup you should be able to almost get away with even tracking a car with stock sway bars.
sway bars are NOT a solution to preventing body roll.
google. roll centre and find article written by gillespie, john c. dixon, and fred puhn. after you read them and if you know anything about physics at all, and not just a way to spend money by swiping your credit card, you can figure out a way to improve handling and bosy roll with out significant sway bar upgrade.
sway bars are not just another part that you can just upgrade to improve performance like bushings. there are negative and positive aspects to upgrading to bigger sway bars. if you get a sway bar that is really stiff it can actually reduce your cars handling capability.
11-23-08, 06:31 AM
#17
daizens are the way to go
i helped test out some of the daizen products back in the day when fortune (may he rest in peace) was alive and i had my gs400
i have the daizens which was the very first thing i ordered when i got a sc
one of the things that sep daizens from the oem and supras is weight savings .. although daizens seemed thick in comparrison , the metal used is lighter but more ridged.. the use of this bar coupled with polyurethene bushings is how they perform head and shoulders above stock and heavier supra bars
for the guys like me running large rear 19in setup and guys running 20's with 285 to 345 rear tires , we/you need the adjustment on the rears so you can dial out the rears tendency to want to oversteer while front is understeering , so in essence in a turn or quick manuver the rear comes around with the fronts
if you are on the fence with this i say go for it , your sc will feel like a go cart with no degradation in ride comfort
i helped test out some of the daizen products back in the day when fortune (may he rest in peace) was alive and i had my gs400
i have the daizens which was the very first thing i ordered when i got a sc
one of the things that sep daizens from the oem and supras is weight savings .. although daizens seemed thick in comparrison , the metal used is lighter but more ridged.. the use of this bar coupled with polyurethene bushings is how they perform head and shoulders above stock and heavier supra bars
for the guys like me running large rear 19in setup and guys running 20's with 285 to 345 rear tires , we/you need the adjustment on the rears so you can dial out the rears tendency to want to oversteer while front is understeering , so in essence in a turn or quick manuver the rear comes around with the fronts
if you are on the fence with this i say go for it , your sc will feel like a go cart with no degradation in ride comfort
11-23-08, 06:34 AM
#18
whiteline also makes the sways for the supra and SC.
sway bars are useful but a bandaid solution for body roll problems. if you have proper suspension and proper geometry setup you should be able to almost get away with even tracking a car with stock sway bars.
sway bars are NOT a solution to preventing body roll.
google. roll centre and find article written by gillespie, john c. dixon, and fred puhn. after you read them and if you know anything about physics at all, and not just a way to spend money by swiping your credit card, you can figure out a way to improve handling and bosy roll with out significant sway bar upgrade.
sway bars are not just another part that you can just upgrade to improve performance like bushings. there are negative and positive aspects to upgrading to bigger sway bars. if you get a sway bar that is really stiff it can actually reduce your cars handling capability.
sway bars are useful but a bandaid solution for body roll problems. if you have proper suspension and proper geometry setup you should be able to almost get away with even tracking a car with stock sway bars.
sway bars are NOT a solution to preventing body roll.
google. roll centre and find article written by gillespie, john c. dixon, and fred puhn. after you read them and if you know anything about physics at all, and not just a way to spend money by swiping your credit card, you can figure out a way to improve handling and bosy roll with out significant sway bar upgrade.
sway bars are not just another part that you can just upgrade to improve performance like bushings. there are negative and positive aspects to upgrading to bigger sway bars. if you get a sway bar that is really stiff it can actually reduce your cars handling capability.
agreed but swaybars overall assist in controlling the ocillations of the entire suspension.. a properly balanced coilover will eliminate a great deal of roll but will not control the yaw rate of the entire assembly hence why race teams dynamically match roll bars with the rest of their susp setup to achieve a perfect balance
11-23-08, 07:47 AM
#19
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whiteline also makes the sways for the supra and SC.
sway bars are useful but a bandaid solution for body roll problems. if you have proper suspension and proper geometry setup you should be able to almost get away with even tracking a car with stock sway bars.
sway bars are NOT a solution to preventing body roll.
google. roll centre and find article written by gillespie, john c. dixon, and fred puhn. after you read them and if you know anything about physics at all, and not just a way to spend money by swiping your credit card, you can figure out a way to improve handling and bosy roll with out significant sway bar upgrade.
sway bars are not just another part that you can just upgrade to improve performance like bushings. there are negative and positive aspects to upgrading to bigger sway bars. if you get a sway bar that is really stiff it can actually reduce your cars handling capability.
sway bars are useful but a bandaid solution for body roll problems. if you have proper suspension and proper geometry setup you should be able to almost get away with even tracking a car with stock sway bars.
sway bars are NOT a solution to preventing body roll.
google. roll centre and find article written by gillespie, john c. dixon, and fred puhn. after you read them and if you know anything about physics at all, and not just a way to spend money by swiping your credit card, you can figure out a way to improve handling and bosy roll with out significant sway bar upgrade.
sway bars are not just another part that you can just upgrade to improve performance like bushings. there are negative and positive aspects to upgrading to bigger sway bars. if you get a sway bar that is really stiff it can actually reduce your cars handling capability.
hahalexforlife- do you think the daizen sways are to stiff or is it just about right? cause just like 5sp_jzz30 said i dont want my car to have its handling reduced. how much is the difference among the 3 way adjustability?
11-23-08, 06:47 PM
#20
since doing solid steel rack bushings and putting on my stance coilovers, without yet installing all poly control arm bushings and spherical rod end links, my car feel like a go kart with amazing response and very minimal body roll, yaw, or dive. im currently on stock SC sways.
the fast that my car drives well does not just come from me doing the upgrade in suspension components and then comparing it. i have plenty of friends that have highly modified FC's, s-chassis, as well as evos. most of those cars are not really daily driven and setup for track days, HPDE, and time attack events. most of them told me that a very minor sway bar upgrade the car will be very neutral. right now my car does some minor under-steering under very hard loads but it is very easily corrected with the gas pedal which doesnt cause the car to over-steer but rather rotate and its all dandy
actually today my buddy drove it who was a suspension engineer for a Formula 1000 team. they build formula cars with gsx-r1000 engines. currently his team is very close to breaking a track record in Arizona held by a factory built Toyota Atlantic car.
after driving it he was very suprised at the handling of my massive boat. he said, by the seat of his pants, that a sway bar upgrade of about 30% stiffness of the sway bars will be amazing. anything more then that will cause somewhat of a unpredictable handling. you can get use to it but no need.
if the previously posted sway bar stiffness numbers are correct then the tanabe or the whiteline bar will be by best bet.
if you have softer coilovers and go with a daizen bar, which is supposedly very stiff, it may actually cause your car to dogleg at hard loads and actually lift the tire while cornering, which you definitely want to avoid as much as possible. if you have helper springs on your coilovers then it will help.
what coilovers do you run on your car and what spring rates? most important question is what are your plans with your car. mostly daily driving, drifting, tracking, all out time attack? you have to first set a definitely goal for your car and then find parts that meet your goals. you cannot have a car that is good at everything. if you try to build a vehicle like that you will fail...
body roll is felt a lot too because you slide in your stock seat. if you have a set with good lateral mid and upper body support you feel a lot more comfortable even with somewhat moderate body roll.
the fast that my car drives well does not just come from me doing the upgrade in suspension components and then comparing it. i have plenty of friends that have highly modified FC's, s-chassis, as well as evos. most of those cars are not really daily driven and setup for track days, HPDE, and time attack events. most of them told me that a very minor sway bar upgrade the car will be very neutral. right now my car does some minor under-steering under very hard loads but it is very easily corrected with the gas pedal which doesnt cause the car to over-steer but rather rotate and its all dandy
actually today my buddy drove it who was a suspension engineer for a Formula 1000 team. they build formula cars with gsx-r1000 engines. currently his team is very close to breaking a track record in Arizona held by a factory built Toyota Atlantic car.
after driving it he was very suprised at the handling of my massive boat. he said, by the seat of his pants, that a sway bar upgrade of about 30% stiffness of the sway bars will be amazing. anything more then that will cause somewhat of a unpredictable handling. you can get use to it but no need.
if the previously posted sway bar stiffness numbers are correct then the tanabe or the whiteline bar will be by best bet.
if you have softer coilovers and go with a daizen bar, which is supposedly very stiff, it may actually cause your car to dogleg at hard loads and actually lift the tire while cornering, which you definitely want to avoid as much as possible. if you have helper springs on your coilovers then it will help.
what coilovers do you run on your car and what spring rates? most important question is what are your plans with your car. mostly daily driving, drifting, tracking, all out time attack? you have to first set a definitely goal for your car and then find parts that meet your goals. you cannot have a car that is good at everything. if you try to build a vehicle like that you will fail...
body roll is felt a lot too because you slide in your stock seat. if you have a set with good lateral mid and upper body support you feel a lot more comfortable even with somewhat moderate body roll.
11-23-08, 09:53 PM
#21
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i would love to ride in your sc. i really wanna feel the difference in our cars.
as of now my suspesion is stock with jic front strut tower, daizen sway bar bushings, and zeal functions S6 spring rate front: 800lbs/in and rear: 600lbs/in
plans for the car? maily auto-x and a little drifting. im not going all out though so im just stay subtle.
i have a feeling i really dont need the sway bars, as i noticed driving my car today, i tried to ignore the zero side bolster and such, and my car doesnt really body roll nor dive. i think ima go ahead and get some seats before i spend half a grand on sway bars that i may not even need.
you really lite things up for me 5sp_jzz30
may i ask how did you do the solid steering rack bushings? and you dont have any excessive metal to metal wear?
as of now my suspesion is stock with jic front strut tower, daizen sway bar bushings, and zeal functions S6 spring rate front: 800lbs/in and rear: 600lbs/in
plans for the car? maily auto-x and a little drifting. im not going all out though so im just stay subtle.
i have a feeling i really dont need the sway bars, as i noticed driving my car today, i tried to ignore the zero side bolster and such, and my car doesnt really body roll nor dive. i think ima go ahead and get some seats before i spend half a grand on sway bars that i may not even need.
you really lite things up for me 5sp_jzz30
may i ask how did you do the solid steering rack bushings? and you dont have any excessive metal to metal wear?
11-24-08, 06:00 AM
#22
i machined my own rack inserts in a lathe. they install with only a few thousands on inch clearance. i did it last winter and its great.
i made a thread about it before with pics and even a CAD sheet with dimensions. i was tossing the idea around of making and selling them. i wasnt looking to make a profit on it either. whatever the material cost end up being thats what i was going to charge. i wanted to help the community and show that there are other options out there. then the mods closed/deleted my thread because im not a vendor so i cant mention that kind of stuff....ghey. w/e.
EDIT: 2000TH POST!!!
i made a thread about it before with pics and even a CAD sheet with dimensions. i was tossing the idea around of making and selling them. i wasnt looking to make a profit on it either. whatever the material cost end up being thats what i was going to charge. i wanted to help the community and show that there are other options out there. then the mods closed/deleted my thread because im not a vendor so i cant mention that kind of stuff....ghey. w/e.
EDIT: 2000TH POST!!!
Last edited by 5sp_jzz30; 11-24-08 at 07:44 AM.
01-19-09, 01:15 PM
#24
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Daizen is made for SC so you don't need supra rear subframe mounts.
The Titan sways are made for Supra's so it needs the rear subframe mounts if you want to install on a SC.
The Titan sways are made for Supra's so it needs the rear subframe mounts if you want to install on a SC.
01-19-09, 01:48 PM
#25
I already have the supra subframe mounts, so i'm gonna go with the better ones regardless, so titan or daizen?
12-04-09, 07:26 PM
#27
whiteline also makes the sways for the supra and SC.
sway bars are useful but a bandaid solution for body roll problems. if you have proper suspension and proper geometry setup you should be able to almost get away with even tracking a car with stock sway bars.
sway bars are NOT a solution to preventing body roll.
google. roll centre and find article written by gillespie, john c. dixon, and fred puhn. after you read them and if you know anything about physics at all, and not just a way to spend money by swiping your credit card, you can figure out a way to improve handling and bosy roll with out significant sway bar upgrade.
sway bars are not just another part that you can just upgrade to improve performance like bushings. there are negative and positive aspects to upgrading to bigger sway bars. if you get a sway bar that is really stiff it can actually reduce your cars handling capability.
sway bars are useful but a bandaid solution for body roll problems. if you have proper suspension and proper geometry setup you should be able to almost get away with even tracking a car with stock sway bars.
sway bars are NOT a solution to preventing body roll.
google. roll centre and find article written by gillespie, john c. dixon, and fred puhn. after you read them and if you know anything about physics at all, and not just a way to spend money by swiping your credit card, you can figure out a way to improve handling and bosy roll with out significant sway bar upgrade.
sway bars are not just another part that you can just upgrade to improve performance like bushings. there are negative and positive aspects to upgrading to bigger sway bars. if you get a sway bar that is really stiff it can actually reduce your cars handling capability.
05-23-10, 08:16 PM
#28
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thought i would bring back this thread, rather then make a new one.
i think im going with whiteline sway bars. 30mm front and 20m rears [comes with its own urethane bushings]
they were made for the mkiv supra, and so all i would need is the rear subframe mounds for the mkiv supra. correct?
what about the brackets that hold the bushings?
i think im going with whiteline sway bars. 30mm front and 20m rears [comes with its own urethane bushings]
they were made for the mkiv supra, and so all i would need is the rear subframe mounds for the mkiv supra. correct?
what about the brackets that hold the bushings?
05-24-10, 01:13 PM
#30
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i haven't actually ridden in a car with the Titan motorsports sway bars but my friend with a mkiv says these sway bars are the way to go for SC's and Supra's. He stated that they were significantly stiffer than the Daizen Sways and felt a lot more responsive. Also Titan motorsports also offers Solid rear subframe mount bushings as these would be needed on SC application since they were designed for the Supra.