new coilovers.. which to get
03-09-09, 02:44 PM
#47
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Please tell me who did you source your D2 coilover from because that spring rate you have there is asking for trouble. The front spring rate is just too stiff while the rear is too soft. Did you ever test your coilover on a track with proper data to see if it's a neutral setup. Lastly, how did you determine your dampning rate? Oh, when did you order these coilover since you might have one of the first gen. design with the smaller valving.
fwiw, i DID NOT want a firm ride with this set-up but wanted to try out the springs that come with it from the manufacture b/c obviously some engineer and their R&D department know more than i do when it comes to weight dist and spring rates/valving. I was a bit aprehensive at first also with that high of spring rate in the front, but was very pleased.
As for track testing, we have multiple track cars here that we have tested many variations of D2 coilovers and spring rates on and in most instances the manufacturer has been spot on with coilovers that work great on the road coarse and are comfortable for daily driving.
by a rough guide, we do not like to go more than 2 kg/mm up or down when changing spring rates in the USA. Anything more than that we prefer to have the manufacture re-valve and assemble at the factory.
anymore questions please feel free to ask.
03-09-09, 06:23 PM
#51
i work for D2 USA, lol. Believe it or not the ride is very nice and if you would like to come check it out please do so. (goes for anyone)! The car is very nuetral feeling with the dampening a little more 'hard' in the rear than the front. The car is very controllable and tame at 85+ mph on the hwy and city potholes and other wonderful obstructions placed on the roadways by our local DMV.
fwiw, i DID NOT want a firm ride with this set-up but wanted to try out the springs that come with it from the manufacture b/c obviously some engineer and their R&D department know more than i do when it comes to weight dist and spring rates/valving. I was a bit aprehensive at first also with that high of spring rate in the front, but was very pleased.
As for track testing, we have multiple track cars here that we have tested many variations of D2 coilovers and spring rates on and in most instances the manufacturer has been spot on with coilovers that work great on the road coarse and are comfortable for daily driving.
by a rough guide, we do not like to go more than 2 kg/mm up or down when changing spring rates in the USA. Anything more than that we prefer to have the manufacture re-valve and assemble at the factory.
anymore questions please feel free to ask.
fwiw, i DID NOT want a firm ride with this set-up but wanted to try out the springs that come with it from the manufacture b/c obviously some engineer and their R&D department know more than i do when it comes to weight dist and spring rates/valving. I was a bit aprehensive at first also with that high of spring rate in the front, but was very pleased.
As for track testing, we have multiple track cars here that we have tested many variations of D2 coilovers and spring rates on and in most instances the manufacturer has been spot on with coilovers that work great on the road coarse and are comfortable for daily driving.
by a rough guide, we do not like to go more than 2 kg/mm up or down when changing spring rates in the USA. Anything more than that we prefer to have the manufacture re-valve and assemble at the factory.
anymore questions please feel free to ask.
03-09-09, 07:35 PM
#52
7 post rig shakers are extensively used by race teams and high end brands (Penske, Ohlins, Bilstein, etc). I highly doubt D2 has the money to buy one, let alone has access to it. It doesn't make sense financially to own one if your mass products are for the street guys. However, it's the true way of finding out how well the suspension works on your car, especially if you have those damping controls. A lot of coilovers with 'rebound-only' adjustments have crosstalk between rebound and compression, and it's usually not linear/balanced either. 
Add the fact that setting "10" on one shock is most likely NOT going to be the same on the other side, your rebound/compression will be all over the place. If you want the most out of your coilovers you need to get it on a rig shaker. Most adjusters are crap anyways..more reason to get it fine tuned. My next set will most likely be Bilstein coilovers.
If you buy your coilovers for aesthetic purposes only, then ignore the above.
Add the fact that setting "10" on one shock is most likely NOT going to be the same on the other side, your rebound/compression will be all over the place. If you want the most out of your coilovers you need to get it on a rig shaker. Most adjusters are crap anyways..more reason to get it fine tuned. My next set will most likely be Bilstein coilovers.If you buy your coilovers for aesthetic purposes only, then ignore the above.
03-09-09, 08:18 PM
#53
7 post rig shakers are extensively used by race teams and high end brands (Penske, Ohlins, Bilstein, etc). I highly doubt D2 has the money to buy one, let alone has access to it. It doesn't make sense financially to own one if your mass products are for the street guys. However, it's the true way of finding out how well the suspension works on your car, especially if you have those damping controls. A lot of coilovers with 'rebound-only' adjustments have crosstalk between rebound and compression, and it's usually not linear/balanced either. Add the fact that setting "10" on one shock is most likely NOT going to be the same on the other side, your rebound/compression will be all over the place. If you want the most out of your coilovers you need to get it on a rig shaker. Most adjusters are crap anyways..more reason to get it fine tuned. My next set will most likely be Bilstein coilovers.
If you buy your coilovers for aesthetic purposes only, then ignore the above.
Add the fact that setting "10" on one shock is most likely NOT going to be the same on the other side, your rebound/compression will be all over the place. If you want the most out of your coilovers you need to get it on a rig shaker. Most adjusters are crap anyways..more reason to get it fine tuned. My next set will most likely be Bilstein coilovers.If you buy your coilovers for aesthetic purposes only, then ignore the above.
Dave, if you're reading this, please don't lock it as I'm venting right now because I'm furious that someone has taken part of my R&D and claiming it as their own without given credit to how they found the data.. To sum it all up, a well known supra shop once claimed "We are the originator... Not imitator..."
Last edited by Alexus_300; 03-09-09 at 08:21 PM.
03-10-09, 02:25 PM
#55
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i work for D2 USA, lol. Believe it or not the ride is very nice and if you would like to come check it out please do so. (goes for anyone)! The car is very nuetral feeling with the dampening a little more 'hard' in the rear than the front. The car is very controllable and tame at 85+ mph on the hwy and city potholes and other wonderful obstructions placed on the roadways by our local DMV.
fwiw, i DID NOT want a firm ride with this set-up but wanted to try out the springs that come with it from the manufacture b/c obviously some engineer and their R&D department know more than i do when it comes to weight dist and spring rates/valving. I was a bit aprehensive at first also with that high of spring rate in the front, but was very pleased.
As for track testing, we have multiple track cars here that we have tested many variations of D2 coilovers and spring rates on and in most instances the manufacturer has been spot on with coilovers that work great on the road coarse and are comfortable for daily driving.
by a rough guide, we do not like to go more than 2 kg/mm up or down when changing spring rates in the USA. Anything more than that we prefer to have the manufacture re-valve and assemble at the factory.
anymore questions please feel free to ask.
fwiw, i DID NOT want a firm ride with this set-up but wanted to try out the springs that come with it from the manufacture b/c obviously some engineer and their R&D department know more than i do when it comes to weight dist and spring rates/valving. I was a bit aprehensive at first also with that high of spring rate in the front, but was very pleased.
As for track testing, we have multiple track cars here that we have tested many variations of D2 coilovers and spring rates on and in most instances the manufacturer has been spot on with coilovers that work great on the road coarse and are comfortable for daily driving.
by a rough guide, we do not like to go more than 2 kg/mm up or down when changing spring rates in the USA. Anything more than that we prefer to have the manufacture re-valve and assemble at the factory.
anymore questions please feel free to ask.
are you talking about the factory setup at 17kg(F) and 9kg(R)??
03-12-09, 10:26 AM
#57
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My thoughts exactly... Therefore, I was commenting on how drifterjer manage to come up with his spring and damping rate. The butt dyno is only good for one thing... and that is impression. For what I have worked hard on for so long, now it looks like someone is going to take what I have designed and tested and claim it as their own without doing any hard work. Just so everyone knows, I have full access to the entire RCR (Richard Childress Racing) speed shops after hours to work on my cars. So I guess everyone know where I'm getting my data from. 7 post rig is one important component to a balance chassis, corner weighing your car also makes a big difference. So let me ask again, would you trust a D2 employee who claims to be an engineer or someone who is a vehicle dynamics engineer for a Nascar team that provides suspension setup for a race car day in and day out???
Dave, if you're reading this, please don't lock it as I'm venting right now because I'm furious that someone has taken part of my R&D and claiming it as their own without given credit to how they found the data.. To sum it all up, a well known supra shop once claimed "We are the originator... Not imitator..."
Dave, if you're reading this, please don't lock it as I'm venting right now because I'm furious that someone has taken part of my R&D and claiming it as their own without given credit to how they found the data.. To sum it all up, a well known supra shop once claimed "We are the originator... Not imitator..."
As for ride quality, yes I am using my butt dyno and have no numerical data to back it (ie. 7 layer burrito machine or track lap times). However, coming from previous driving for Team Lexus under Chuck Goldsboro, qualified for D1 and have many many many hours on the track, one could possibly use my OPINION as a fairly reliable (not scientific) resource
.back on topic.
03-12-09, 01:21 PM
#59
There is no way the 2gs can handle well with 17kg F and 8kg R for anything. I don't care who's opinion you can get or what your butt dyno says, physics just proves you wrong.
I dont think i ever said 'I' was the one that determined the spring rates for the applications, i said that was left up to the engineers at D2. So please read before you decide to vent and acuse. Also, the RCR comment means nothing to me as I know who you are and you couldnt even install a simple BBK without help (if you are who i think you are...if not please disregard because i assumed just like you did).
As for ride quality, yes I am using my butt dyno and have no numerical data to back it (ie. 7 layer burrito machine or track lap times). However, coming from previous driving for Team Lexus under Chuck Goldsboro, qualified for D1 and have many many many hours on the track, one could possibly use my OPINION as a fairly reliable (not scientific) resource.
back on topic.
As for ride quality, yes I am using my butt dyno and have no numerical data to back it (ie. 7 layer burrito machine or track lap times). However, coming from previous driving for Team Lexus under Chuck Goldsboro, qualified for D1 and have many many many hours on the track, one could possibly use my OPINION as a fairly reliable (not scientific) resource
.back on topic.
03-12-09, 01:34 PM
#60
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if your talking about 'handles' as in cornering forces or lap times or ride quality, i think we can all agree that there is WAAAYYY more to that calculation than just the spring rate.
and fwiw, it is a 8.7kg/mm rear.
and again, my opinion...one doesnt need a machine to tell him if a machine feels neutral and balanced. true, it is wise and a MUST for any track prepped vehicle...but lets face it, how many people actually track their cars here (i have no plans to, thats what my M5 is for
). I am NOT saying that its an excuse to not have a well balanced machine with proper suspension tuning, but i would bet a handfull of people who have coilovers on their vehicle have even corner balanced them.