Stoptech 4 corner bbk
03-19-09, 05:22 AM
#46
Lexus Champion
Rotora inside info?
Rich,
the explanation given by StopTech cannot be neither be confirmed nor denied, based only on what has been said or observed from any of the posts so far. The explanation they give is entirely plausible. So unless you can find proof otherwise, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt.
Off the top of my head, there are some hints that can be gathered to validate their claim:
1. Find out what the front Caliper Manufacturers Part Number is on the 4 corner set up for the SC and compare it to yours. A different PN indicates something is different, though we could not say whether that difference is due to a different piston diameter or something simple like a different color. On the other hand if the PN is the same as yours, then you can make a pretty solid conclusion from that.
2. As far as observations that the calipers on the SC and GS are the same, well those comments were based on inspecting the 2 corner set up.
From a visual standpoint, you CANNOT tell by looking at the caliper body if the 4 corner fronts are the same as yours. The body sizes can remain the same, however the piston diameters can be different.
You would actually have to find a 4 corner set up and measure the pistons and then measure the diameter and compare them to your fronts.
3. Perhaps you can make a further inquiry directly with Stop Tech and ask them to provide the "different" front 4 corner PN or provide the front piston diameter specs?
As far as seeking other options, I'd consider Brembo or APRacing (with my custom bracket). I sincerely would not recommend the Rotora 4 corner. I am not going to argue why, but let's just say I have some insider info.
If you can tell by now, I've done a lot of research before I opted to go with my AP Racing set up. I didn't want a set up purely for looks, it had to be well balanced and engineered properly. Come summer time I plan on doing some brake testing to see what kind of stopping distances I can achieve.
the explanation given by StopTech cannot be neither be confirmed nor denied, based only on what has been said or observed from any of the posts so far. The explanation they give is entirely plausible. So unless you can find proof otherwise, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt.
Off the top of my head, there are some hints that can be gathered to validate their claim:
1. Find out what the front Caliper Manufacturers Part Number is on the 4 corner set up for the SC and compare it to yours. A different PN indicates something is different, though we could not say whether that difference is due to a different piston diameter or something simple like a different color. On the other hand if the PN is the same as yours, then you can make a pretty solid conclusion from that.
2. As far as observations that the calipers on the SC and GS are the same, well those comments were based on inspecting the 2 corner set up.
From a visual standpoint, you CANNOT tell by looking at the caliper body if the 4 corner fronts are the same as yours. The body sizes can remain the same, however the piston diameters can be different.
You would actually have to find a 4 corner set up and measure the pistons and then measure the diameter and compare them to your fronts.
3. Perhaps you can make a further inquiry directly with Stop Tech and ask them to provide the "different" front 4 corner PN or provide the front piston diameter specs?
As far as seeking other options, I'd consider Brembo or APRacing (with my custom bracket). I sincerely would not recommend the Rotora 4 corner. I am not going to argue why, but let's just say I have some insider info.
If you can tell by now, I've done a lot of research before I opted to go with my AP Racing set up. I didn't want a set up purely for looks, it had to be well balanced and engineered properly. Come summer time I plan on doing some brake testing to see what kind of stopping distances I can achieve.
What's the inside scoop that I need to know?
Hit me with a pm, if you rather not expose anyone?
As far as I know the Rotora's work great and it's a mod I use each day I drive my GS, which has also saved me a few times from close accidents?
03-19-09, 08:48 AM
#48
thanks for the info Glen. Those are all good points I did not consider. Can anyone give me an email address for someone at stoptech other than Erik? He has basically been unwilling to help me from the moment I first contacted him. I am also hoping a vendor can help me out. I will do the research and find out if the part numbers match, the only problem is the part # for the SC setup is for the 4 corner so that will be different. My other option is to buy the full SC setup and just sell my fronts. Glen, do you feel the stoptech is not as good as brembo or ap racing?
I have nothing but good things to say about StopTech. I had a great conversation with the StopTech people at SEMA. I installed StopTechs on the wifes car. Nuff said.
The 4 corner kit will have a different PN than the 2 corner as far as ordering either kit is concerned. The challenge is to find the PN for the front only box, within that kit. Assuming this kit comes in two boxes, that marking would possibly be on the box or possibly the parts list or described in the instructions. Not sure if the calipers themselves have a PN marking. If it is stamped (molded/engraved) somewhere that would be great. If it is just ink stamped, that's gonna be hard to find on an old caliper.
Let me check with some of my old resources and see if I can help find a resource at StopTech.
03-19-09, 08:50 AM
#49
Glen, you know I have the Rotora BBK on all corners and thought I had a pretty good set up? What's the inside scoop that I need to know? Hit me with a pm, if you rather not expose anyone?
As far as I know the Rotora's work great and it's a mod I use each day I drive my GS, which has also saved me a few times from close accidents?
What's the inside scoop that I need to know? Hit me with a pm, if you rather not expose anyone?As far as I know the Rotora's work great and it's a mod I use each day I drive my GS, which has also saved me a few times from close accidents?
03-19-09, 09:14 AM
#50
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Thanks for the help. I have a vendor here that is really trying to do all he can for me. I was looking through the stoptech application guide and noticed that the IS350 and 06 GS430 had the same part #s. I found a thread from about 6 months ago where a member with an SC430 was selling his full kit, so I sent him a pm to see if he still had it.
03-19-09, 01:39 PM
#52
definitely not, i think my ap racing 6 and the stoptech 4 perform pretty much the same. the ap racing 6 pots have 2 more pistons but area of each is probably smaller than that of the stoptech. i don't know the exact number, but i don't see the ap racing before more powerful.
however from stoptech's reply, it seems like in the 4 corner setup, the front piston sizes are significantly larger. coupled with the rears, um.... :yummy:
however from stoptech's reply, it seems like in the 4 corner setup, the front piston sizes are significantly larger. coupled with the rears, um.... :yummy:
03-19-09, 03:01 PM
#53
definitely not, i think my ap racing 6 and the stoptech 4 perform pretty much the same. the ap racing 6 pots have 2 more pistons but area of each is probably smaller than that of the stoptech. i don't know the exact number, but i don't see the ap racing before more powerful.
however from stoptech's reply, it seems like in the 4 corner setup, the front piston sizes are significantly larger. coupled with the rears, um.... :yummy:
however from stoptech's reply, it seems like in the 4 corner setup, the front piston sizes are significantly larger. coupled with the rears, um.... :yummy:
The 4 piston versus 6 piston is basically a design philosophy. Piston quantity increases, but piston area decreases. The total area of a 4 vs 6 piston could end up to be exactly the same, but what changes is the spread of pressure across the pad. The six piston applies more even pressure and more even wear across the brake pad then a 4 piston. Either can be effective at stopping, but the bigger variable is what pad you use. A more aggressive pad will stop better, create more dust and more noise and will kill your rotors faster, not to mention they don't stop very well when cold. Most of us select a pad with a little less performance to minimize the other trade offs.
So when I went to my AP Racing 4 corner set up, even though I already owned the AP Racing fronts (Same as your old set up Henry) I actually had to start over and buy the full 4 corner set up, because my old AP front brake set up was not the same as what was offered in the 4 corner. Not sure about the piston size, but the rotor diameter was definitely larger on the Front 4 Corner set up.
Last edited by RMMGS4; 03-19-09 at 03:14 PM.
03-19-09, 03:04 PM
#54
Going slightly off topic
Some of the best brakes in the world can be found on a Formula One Car
AP Racing provides brakes to many forms of auto racing including F1 where stopping forces reach 5 G's !!!
FIA regulations for Formula 1 brakes (2007)
Formula One cars must have one brake system operated through a single brake pedal. However, the system must comprise two hydraulic circuits - one for the front wheels and one for the rear. Should one circuit fail the other must remain operational. Power brakes and anti-lock braking systems (ABS) are not allowed.
Each wheel must have no more than one brake disc of 278mm maximum diameter and 28mm maximum thickness. Each disc must have only one aluminium caliper, with a maximum of six circular pistons, and no more than two brake pads.
The size of the air ducts used to cool the brakes is strictly controlled and they must not protrude beyond the wheels. The use of liquid to cool the brakes is forbidden
AP Racing provides brakes to many forms of auto racing including F1 where stopping forces reach 5 G's !!!
FIA regulations for Formula 1 brakes (2007)
Formula One cars must have one brake system operated through a single brake pedal. However, the system must comprise two hydraulic circuits - one for the front wheels and one for the rear. Should one circuit fail the other must remain operational. Power brakes and anti-lock braking systems (ABS) are not allowed.
Each wheel must have no more than one brake disc of 278mm maximum diameter and 28mm maximum thickness. Each disc must have only one aluminium caliper, with a maximum of six circular pistons, and no more than two brake pads.
The size of the air ducts used to cool the brakes is strictly controlled and they must not protrude beyond the wheels. The use of liquid to cool the brakes is forbidden
Last edited by RMMGS4; 03-19-09 at 03:19 PM.
03-20-09, 06:55 AM
#55
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
just got this email from TMEngineering:
Regarding this email and your previous for the IS300…
The four wheel kits do not have separate rear calipers, as they piston sizes are designed to work together as a set. They are only available as sets. You would need to basically remove the existing front kit and add the four wheel kit.
The sc430 also has significantly different piston sizes and braking bias than the GS, so it wouldn’t be a great idea to do that kit on the GS, unless you do it at your own risk. The SC430 has considerably more front brake bias, and would not brake evenly.
It *might* be possible to do the IS 4 wheel kit, but I am not sure about the rear fitment.
Not looking good for me, I guess I can buy the SC430 4 wheel setup and sell my front setup. If I have to do that I am just going to go with the brembo 4 corner setup.
Regarding this email and your previous for the IS300…
The four wheel kits do not have separate rear calipers, as they piston sizes are designed to work together as a set. They are only available as sets. You would need to basically remove the existing front kit and add the four wheel kit.
The sc430 also has significantly different piston sizes and braking bias than the GS, so it wouldn’t be a great idea to do that kit on the GS, unless you do it at your own risk. The SC430 has considerably more front brake bias, and would not brake evenly.
It *might* be possible to do the IS 4 wheel kit, but I am not sure about the rear fitment.
Not looking good for me, I guess I can buy the SC430 4 wheel setup and sell my front setup. If I have to do that I am just going to go with the brembo 4 corner setup.
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