Why don't more people use RCA's
04-15-09, 01:58 AM
#16
Lexus Champion
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Price
I like them but 2 peices of CNC metal that costs about 4 hours of fab time to create a blue print then $20 for the blocks of aluminum then $4 for bolts and washer does not equal over $500 .
It is a nice idea that works well but i don't care how much someone says rice ang gravy is amazing i would never pay more than $5 for it.
It is just a block of spacers put together.
Get a file with a saw and make your own who cars if it is anodized as no one can see it.
100-150 Amazing price
200 acceptable
300 better come with some stripper coupons
400 might as well start saving then spend it on adjustable control arms which are adjustable to correct.
I like them but 2 peices of CNC metal that costs about 4 hours of fab time to create a blue print then $20 for the blocks of aluminum then $4 for bolts and washer does not equal over $500 .
It is a nice idea that works well but i don't care how much someone says rice ang gravy is amazing i would never pay more than $5 for it.
It is just a block of spacers put together.
Get a file with a saw and make your own who cars if it is anodized as no one can see it.
100-150 Amazing price
200 acceptable
300 better come with some stripper coupons
400 might as well start saving then spend it on adjustable control arms which are adjustable to correct.
04-15-09, 03:28 AM
#17
The short answer is : Your car will handle better, because it corrects the poor suspension geometry that occurs when you lower the car beyond it's practical design limits. Look at the people who are posting that they are breaking their sway bar end links, that's a geometry problem not a strength issue with the part.
The long answer is easy to find on wiki or Google : RCA = Roll Center Adapter = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roll_center
I think the problem with the long answer is most people will not have either the time, understanding, desire or all three to care about improving roll center on their lowered car.
My thoughts are that the people who "would " be interested in RCAs are those who "Truly" are interested in performance driving and handling of their GS or those that don't wish to prematurely wear out the inner 10% of their tire tread and then have to throw the tire away.
Another performance perspective is rear camber also hurts straight line traction, since the tire is not in full contact with the ground and you are effectively losing maybe 50% or more of your available grip. Any drag racer in their right mind is going to make sure their tires are square to the ground with zero camber.
For those that don't drive around turns too fast, or where handling or straight line traction is not a priority, then RCA's are not going to be important.
Unlike the rear, some camber in the front is a good performance handling aspect, but that's a whole other topic.
For me , the biggest difference I felt after installing the RCAs is the improvement in bump steer (Google It). While taking a high speed turn on a slightly bumpy winding road, the car was "MUCH" more stable when I hit uneven spots. Before I had the RCAs installed, hitting that same bump would cause the car's rear end to become loosey goosey. Not a comfortable feeling at all and a great potential to spin the car.
If you want your slammed GS to handle like an M5, get the RCAs. If you are more interested in the stance and look of excessive camber, then RCA's are probably not for you.
That said, there are "other" good reasons why people would want RCAs, but I'll let those people provide their own response.
Thanks to EXACT Motorsports for providing me with the FIRST adjustable rear RCAs on the market and extended length front RCAs.
http://www.exactmotorsports.com/GScamberkits.html
.
The long answer is easy to find on wiki or Google : RCA = Roll Center Adapter = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roll_center
I think the problem with the long answer is most people will not have either the time, understanding, desire or all three to care about improving roll center on their lowered car.
My thoughts are that the people who "would " be interested in RCAs are those who "Truly" are interested in performance driving and handling of their GS or those that don't wish to prematurely wear out the inner 10% of their tire tread and then have to throw the tire away.
Another performance perspective is rear camber also hurts straight line traction, since the tire is not in full contact with the ground and you are effectively losing maybe 50% or more of your available grip. Any drag racer in their right mind is going to make sure their tires are square to the ground with zero camber.
For those that don't drive around turns too fast, or where handling or straight line traction is not a priority, then RCA's are not going to be important.
Unlike the rear, some camber in the front is a good performance handling aspect, but that's a whole other topic.
For me , the biggest difference I felt after installing the RCAs is the improvement in bump steer (Google It). While taking a high speed turn on a slightly bumpy winding road, the car was "MUCH" more stable when I hit uneven spots. Before I had the RCAs installed, hitting that same bump would cause the car's rear end to become loosey goosey. Not a comfortable feeling at all and a great potential to spin the car.
If you want your slammed GS to handle like an M5, get the RCAs. If you are more interested in the stance and look of excessive camber, then RCA's are probably not for you.
That said, there are "other" good reasons why people would want RCAs, but I'll let those people provide their own response.
Thanks to EXACT Motorsports for providing me with the FIRST adjustable rear RCAs on the market and extended length front RCAs.
http://www.exactmotorsports.com/GScamberkits.html
.
04-15-09, 07:55 AM
#19
It's a cost thing, plus not everyone have coilovers to get the full benefit of RCAs.
I see these things flying if they were priced lower. Not everyone has $400+ to buy a set of aftermarket upper control arms to reduce negative camber.
Mine aren't as thick as others on the market (0.5"), but they serve my purpose.
I see these things flying if they were priced lower. Not everyone has $400+ to buy a set of aftermarket upper control arms to reduce negative camber.
Mine aren't as thick as others on the market (0.5"), but they serve my purpose.
04-15-09, 08:26 AM
#23
man...I wish RCAs a bit cheaper...
04-15-09, 09:33 AM
#25
I bought the front from another member for 50 bux and ~30 bux for the bolts. I don't have the rear but I'm looking for one.
The price is too high for me... I really want to get the whole set because my front is only 3/4 inches and I don't have the rear yet.
The price is too high for me... I really want to get the whole set because my front is only 3/4 inches and I don't have the rear yet.
04-15-09, 09:35 AM
#26
-increase suspension travel, helps a lot especially for mine since my coilovers are not a full tap
-helps camber. I went from about -3.5 front to -2.5. I always considered anything in excess of -3 is dangerous for street use (lack of contact patch)
-more correct suspension geometry...at the cost of raising the upper control arm and hitting the wheel well
-bump steer is reduced.
-roll center is more correct
and to the users who doesn't search for themselves and expects CL to be a black box that spits out an answer for them, I have no desire to help. Information is out there. For those who are wondering... go to Night Pager's website. The first picture is at OEM, second is w/o RCA, the third is with RCA.
as for cost, it is expensive that it's a tad over 200bucks just for the front for a piece of metal of a copied idea that's originally developed by YouZealand (which I assume that they) get no royalty fee when it is a patented idea. BUT, I am assuming that each company did their homework and test so I am buying their time and effort...at least I tell myself. Sure material is cheap, it's probably something I could even fab up with my poor CAD skill. But what I don't have is time to test them.
Just my 2cents.
-helps camber. I went from about -3.5 front to -2.5. I always considered anything in excess of -3 is dangerous for street use (lack of contact patch)
-more correct suspension geometry...at the cost of raising the upper control arm and hitting the wheel well
-bump steer is reduced.
-roll center is more correct
and to the users who doesn't search for themselves and expects CL to be a black box that spits out an answer for them, I have no desire to help. Information is out there. For those who are wondering... go to Night Pager's website. The first picture is at OEM, second is w/o RCA, the third is with RCA.
as for cost, it is expensive that it's a tad over 200bucks just for the front for a piece of metal of a copied idea that's originally developed by YouZealand (which I assume that they) get no royalty fee when it is a patented idea. BUT, I am assuming that each company did their homework and test so I am buying their time and effort...at least I tell myself. Sure material is cheap, it's probably something I could even fab up with my poor CAD skill. But what I don't have is time to test them.
Just my 2cents.
04-15-09, 12:57 PM
#27
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-increase suspension travel, helps a lot especially for mine since my coilovers are not a full tap
-helps camber. I went from about -3.5 front to -2.5. I always considered anything in excess of -3 is dangerous for street use (lack of contact patch)
-more correct suspension geometry...at the cost of raising the upper control arm and hitting the wheel well
-bump steer is reduced.
-roll center is more correct
and to the users who doesn't search for themselves and expects CL to be a black box that spits out an answer for them, I have no desire to help. Information is out there. For those who are wondering... go to Night Pager's website. The first picture is at OEM, second is w/o RCA, the third is with RCA.
as for cost, it is expensive that it's a tad over 200bucks just for the front for a piece of metal of a copied idea that's originally developed by YouZealand (which I assume that they) get no royalty fee when it is a patented idea. BUT, I am assuming that each company did their homework and test so I am buying their time and effort...at least I tell myself. Sure material is cheap, it's probably something I could even fab up with my poor CAD skill. But what I don't have is time to test them.
Just my 2cents.
-helps camber. I went from about -3.5 front to -2.5. I always considered anything in excess of -3 is dangerous for street use (lack of contact patch)
-more correct suspension geometry...at the cost of raising the upper control arm and hitting the wheel well
-bump steer is reduced.
-roll center is more correct
and to the users who doesn't search for themselves and expects CL to be a black box that spits out an answer for them, I have no desire to help. Information is out there. For those who are wondering... go to Night Pager's website. The first picture is at OEM, second is w/o RCA, the third is with RCA.
as for cost, it is expensive that it's a tad over 200bucks just for the front for a piece of metal of a copied idea that's originally developed by YouZealand (which I assume that they) get no royalty fee when it is a patented idea. BUT, I am assuming that each company did their homework and test so I am buying their time and effort...at least I tell myself. Sure material is cheap, it's probably something I could even fab up with my poor CAD skill. But what I don't have is time to test them.
Just my 2cents.
04-15-09, 01:00 PM
#28
Master Thread Closer!!
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waipahu, Waikele, HI
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Price
I like them but 2 peices of CNC metal that costs about 4 hours of fab time to create a blue print then $20 for the blocks of aluminum then $4 for bolts and washer does not equal over $500 .
It is a nice idea that works well but i don't care how much someone says rice ang gravy is amazing i would never pay more than $5 for it.
It is just a block of spacers put together.
Get a file with a saw and make your own who cars if it is anodized as no one can see it.
100-150 Amazing price
200 acceptable
300 better come with some stripper coupons
400 might as well start saving then spend it on adjustable control arms which are adjustable to correct.
I like them but 2 peices of CNC metal that costs about 4 hours of fab time to create a blue print then $20 for the blocks of aluminum then $4 for bolts and washer does not equal over $500 .
It is a nice idea that works well but i don't care how much someone says rice ang gravy is amazing i would never pay more than $5 for it.
It is just a block of spacers put together.
Get a file with a saw and make your own who cars if it is anodized as no one can see it.
100-150 Amazing price
200 acceptable
300 better come with some stripper coupons
400 might as well start saving then spend it on adjustable control arms which are adjustable to correct.
04-15-09, 03:35 PM
#30
With regards to the current cost of the RCA’s. These RCAs have only been available on the market for a short time from our approved vendors. On these first batches they are covering for the initial R&D + tooling / development costs. At this point, these businesses are definitely NOT making a killing on the profit margin.
If everyone complained about how expensive DVD players or Flat panels were when they first came out and if the early adopters were not willing to spend the extra money to support these products, then we wouldn’t be seeing the prices come down over time. The JP Tails cost $1200 5 years ago and they were the only modded tails available. Today we have Ebay tails for 1/3 the price and guess what, the JP Tails still cost about the same.
I don’t want to lecture any further so for more info take Economics 101 >> Supply and Demand.
There are VERY FEW vendors out there willing to support a 10 year old model car with new products for it. Let’s support these small companies that only have our best interest at hand and let those who have the money and are willing to spend it, do so without giving them the impression that they are being ripped off.
Since I am interested in performance, good tire choices limit me to 2 or 3 brands. My 2 rear tires from the Tire Rack cost $800. Without RCA’s the mileage I get out of these tires will be reduced by over 50%. I’d say the RCA’s pay for themselves in about 10k miles for me and I’m not even talking about the savings for using the front RCAs which “camberwise” is even worse than the rears.
Regardless of what you spend on tires, the reduction or elimination of inner tire wear by using RCA’s will pay for themselves in the long run.
Exact Motorsports* Current Price as of today:
Front RCA for $179.99 a pair, rear $299.99 a pair
*CL Approved Vendor
.
If everyone complained about how expensive DVD players or Flat panels were when they first came out and if the early adopters were not willing to spend the extra money to support these products, then we wouldn’t be seeing the prices come down over time. The JP Tails cost $1200 5 years ago and they were the only modded tails available. Today we have Ebay tails for 1/3 the price and guess what, the JP Tails still cost about the same.
I don’t want to lecture any further so for more info take Economics 101 >> Supply and Demand.
There are VERY FEW vendors out there willing to support a 10 year old model car with new products for it. Let’s support these small companies that only have our best interest at hand and let those who have the money and are willing to spend it, do so without giving them the impression that they are being ripped off.
Since I am interested in performance, good tire choices limit me to 2 or 3 brands. My 2 rear tires from the Tire Rack cost $800. Without RCA’s the mileage I get out of these tires will be reduced by over 50%. I’d say the RCA’s pay for themselves in about 10k miles for me and I’m not even talking about the savings for using the front RCAs which “camberwise” is even worse than the rears.
Regardless of what you spend on tires, the reduction or elimination of inner tire wear by using RCA’s will pay for themselves in the long run.
Exact Motorsports* Current Price as of today:
Front RCA for $179.99 a pair, rear $299.99 a pair
*CL Approved Vendor
.
Last edited by RMMGS4; 04-15-09 at 06:24 PM.