Is my dealer telling the truth?
06-17-09, 03:12 PM
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Is my dealer telling the truth?
I took my 06 350 in for its 30k service. I just got a call from the dealership saying that my front pads are down to 2mm and that I should have them replaced and that they are "unsafe." This part I don't have a problem with...however, the rep said "on this vehicle we have to replace rotors with pads." Can someone confirm or repudiate this? 
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
Last edited by Jason350; 06-17-09 at 03:39 PM. Reason: spelling
06-17-09, 03:26 PM
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Further clarification from the dealership: "Lexus recommends replacing the rotors because these rotors are made of a softer metal, which wears down. They are too thin to be resurfaced. If we were to only replace the pads, you would get brake vibrations."
Anyone have any experience with this?
Anyone have any experience with this?
06-17-09, 03:46 PM
#3
Further clarification from the dealership: "Lexus recommends replacing the rotors because these rotors are made of a softer metal, which wears down. They are too thin to be resurfaced. If we were to only replace the pads, you would get brake vibrations."
Anyone have any experience with this?
Anyone have any experience with this?
Sure, all the time.
Ask them what the measured thickness of the rotor is. I bet it's well within spec.
06-17-09, 06:27 PM
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06-17-09, 11:24 PM
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So are the pads. 2mm still has another 1mm to go. With only 10.5mm of pad from brand new, they're asking you to throw out pads with 10% of their service life still left in them.
06-19-09, 03:59 PM
#11
Some Brembo rotors are considered "soft" metal and they transfer a lot of material from the rotors to the pad and vice-versa. It's done for better braking from a less agressive material.
With those kind of rotors/pads its a good idea to change both at the same time.
Or you can go aftermarket and usually save yourself some cash.
We carry all kind of rotors and pads, just PM us for info
With those kind of rotors/pads its a good idea to change both at the same time.
Or you can go aftermarket and usually save yourself some cash.
We carry all kind of rotors and pads, just PM us for info
06-25-09, 08:34 PM
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When you have your vehicle serviced at your dealership, you are bringing it to a premium service center. The staff at the dealership usually has more knowledge at servicing your vehicle than most independent garages.
When you service your vehicle (and I'm not talking oil changes here) you're paying your dealer to look over your vehicle and address any issues that require attention. Brakes, tires, wiper inserts, fluids, etc.. are considered wear and tear and usually require replacement on rapid intervals. Most vehicles did well if their brakes make it to 30k. I've seen vehicles make it to 100k miles on the original pads and still had life left on them. I've seen pads worn to minimum before the 15k also so the conditions the vehicle is driven plays a much larger role. If your 7 year old kid kept on bruising his knees would you question the integrity of the clinic's personel?
Most repair manuals have pad life replacement minimum specs and I will tell you from personal experience that if you wait till they wear out to that specs, your brakes will make all sorts of noises, require increased pedal travel and have inconsistent braking control. This seems to be mostly affected on the 2IS and 3GS models. On the LS430 and LS460 if you wait to the pad life service interval, you will be purchasing expensive brake wear electrical sensors. The pad service interval at any dealer on those vehicles is 5mm on other vehicles it is usually between 2-3mm. By that time the rotors would developed an awkward wear across the rotor and that uneven wear and brake pad taper will create inconsistent brake behavior. Combine this with the systems that automatically apply brakes like the radar cruise and the problem is further amplified.
If your dealer is recommending replacing the brakes at 2mm there isn't anything wrong with that. If you are questioning their integrity then make a surprise visit to them and ask them to show you the worn brakes on your vehicle before you authorize the repair. Truth has only one side so they should have nothing to hide.
And don't believe the BS that forums talk trash about dealers and their work ethics. I've seen way more shady stuff happen in front of the customers at private garages that behind closed doors in a dealership.
When you service your vehicle (and I'm not talking oil changes here) you're paying your dealer to look over your vehicle and address any issues that require attention. Brakes, tires, wiper inserts, fluids, etc.. are considered wear and tear and usually require replacement on rapid intervals. Most vehicles did well if their brakes make it to 30k. I've seen vehicles make it to 100k miles on the original pads and still had life left on them. I've seen pads worn to minimum before the 15k also so the conditions the vehicle is driven plays a much larger role. If your 7 year old kid kept on bruising his knees would you question the integrity of the clinic's personel?
Most repair manuals have pad life replacement minimum specs and I will tell you from personal experience that if you wait till they wear out to that specs, your brakes will make all sorts of noises, require increased pedal travel and have inconsistent braking control. This seems to be mostly affected on the 2IS and 3GS models. On the LS430 and LS460 if you wait to the pad life service interval, you will be purchasing expensive brake wear electrical sensors. The pad service interval at any dealer on those vehicles is 5mm on other vehicles it is usually between 2-3mm. By that time the rotors would developed an awkward wear across the rotor and that uneven wear and brake pad taper will create inconsistent brake behavior. Combine this with the systems that automatically apply brakes like the radar cruise and the problem is further amplified.
If your dealer is recommending replacing the brakes at 2mm there isn't anything wrong with that. If you are questioning their integrity then make a surprise visit to them and ask them to show you the worn brakes on your vehicle before you authorize the repair. Truth has only one side so they should have nothing to hide.
And don't believe the BS that forums talk trash about dealers and their work ethics. I've seen way more shady stuff happen in front of the customers at private garages that behind closed doors in a dealership.
06-26-09, 04:16 AM
#13
I notice nowhere in there did you address the original issue- that the dealer told him you have to always replace rotors with pads on a 2IS, which is flatly a lie.
It's great you wanna defend dealerships, since I believe you work for one, but that was a lot of text that didn't address the actual original issue at all- that the dealer flatly lied.
There's lots of great dealerships.
There's also dealerships where they have no idea what they're doing and they do things like rotate tires on a RWD 2IS, tell owners to check their power steering fluid when the car doesn't have any, and things like telling people they have to replace their rotors with their pads every time which simply isn't true.
It's great you wanna defend dealerships, since I believe you work for one, but that was a lot of text that didn't address the actual original issue at all- that the dealer flatly lied.
There's lots of great dealerships.
There's also dealerships where they have no idea what they're doing and they do things like rotate tires on a RWD 2IS, tell owners to check their power steering fluid when the car doesn't have any, and things like telling people they have to replace their rotors with their pads every time which simply isn't true.
06-26-09, 10:41 AM
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In response to the above 2 posts:
The service limit on the rotor is rotor replacement interval. Once it arrives to or very near that service limit (since rotor resurface is usually required), the rotor will require replacement. They will need to check for rotor warpage/parallelism and thickness to determine if it is needing replacement. Also vehicle's up north build rust on the brakes and suspension from the salt used to metl the ice. A severely rusted rotor may need replacement since removal could result in damage to the rotor.
Yes I'm a Lexus certified Master tech and the reason I defend the dealer has nothing to do with where I work. Defending another dealer doesn't make a difference to me especially since they are a few states away.
Most everyone knows that in any profession there are 10% of the people who give 100% and the rest do what they feel like doing. In reality 100% of everyone does whatever they may feel like doing. Its the 10% that I talked about that give their best while looking towards improving from experience and gaining knowledge as they proceed. They intend on absorbing as much as they can to work efficiently and productively while improving their trust with their clients, co-workers and the brand. Most importantly, they are interested in self-improvement and perfection. Unfortunately, you will never get the rest 90% to follow their footsteps. They won't loose their job for not going there since they aren't going against their establishment's rules and regulations. I just have to ask you where do you think these 10% are? At your dealer or at your independant garage?
The service limit on the rotor is rotor replacement interval. Once it arrives to or very near that service limit (since rotor resurface is usually required), the rotor will require replacement. They will need to check for rotor warpage/parallelism and thickness to determine if it is needing replacement. Also vehicle's up north build rust on the brakes and suspension from the salt used to metl the ice. A severely rusted rotor may need replacement since removal could result in damage to the rotor.
Yes I'm a Lexus certified Master tech and the reason I defend the dealer has nothing to do with where I work. Defending another dealer doesn't make a difference to me especially since they are a few states away.
Most everyone knows that in any profession there are 10% of the people who give 100% and the rest do what they feel like doing. In reality 100% of everyone does whatever they may feel like doing. Its the 10% that I talked about that give their best while looking towards improving from experience and gaining knowledge as they proceed. They intend on absorbing as much as they can to work efficiently and productively while improving their trust with their clients, co-workers and the brand. Most importantly, they are interested in self-improvement and perfection. Unfortunately, you will never get the rest 90% to follow their footsteps. They won't loose their job for not going there since they aren't going against their establishment's rules and regulations. I just have to ask you where do you think these 10% are? At your dealer or at your independant garage?