F-Sport suspension and ridiculous camber and tire wear
08-27-09, 11:13 AM
#16
F is for Fraud
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If you have a problem with your car, bring it back to the dealer and have them fix it. Don't come on here groaning and moaning for help and then discrediting everything everyone is saying. Higher wear and tear from performance accessories is to be expected - you shouldn't need a disclaimer, and if you're so in-tune with performance modifications, you should've known this from the get-go.
For the record, my car is being serviced by Robin Almasi himself from Almasi Tuning, who revolutionized Japanese automative tuning here in Canada and in the northern U.S. He is probably in a much better place to comment about this problem than your SoCal Porsche and Audi guys. I will be giving him a call to see what he thinks, but I'm guessing he'll be telling me that you should just go to the dealer and have them deal with it, as F-Sport accessories are backed by a warranty if installed by an authorized dealer.
For the record, my car is being serviced by Robin Almasi himself from Almasi Tuning, who revolutionized Japanese automative tuning here in Canada and in the northern U.S. He is probably in a much better place to comment about this problem than your SoCal Porsche and Audi guys. I will be giving him a call to see what he thinks, but I'm guessing he'll be telling me that you should just go to the dealer and have them deal with it, as F-Sport accessories are backed by a warranty if installed by an authorized dealer.
08-27-09, 11:39 AM
#17
Lexus Fanatic
Toe is adjustable and will reduce this kind of wear. Do a search and you will find those with much more expertise on this topic that can explain it very well.
Last edited by IS-SV; 08-27-09 at 11:47 AM. Reason: sp
08-27-09, 11:52 AM
#18
I still think the main culprit of your "premature" tire wear is too much toe. Theirs a TON of info on this site regarding inner tire wear and toe, just search. -1.5 camber is out of spec but I don't think its enough to have a major impact on tire wear.
08-27-09, 12:29 PM
#21
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I'm going to repost this snippet that Lobuxracer submitted on a different thread with a similar issue:
I can't believe all the BS in this thread. NORMAL? HELL NO!!! There are only two things that wear out the outer tread blocks - too much toe in (does NOT meet stock spec) or consistently very hard cornering.
Inner edge wear should NOT happen again unless there is too much toe out - there is NO other reason. There isn't enough camber in this car to wear anything prematurely and camber isn't the issue at anything less than -2.5 degrees. The front is -0.8 and the rear is -1.5 - pretty normal for a factory alignment to ensure the car understeers.
I went 32k miles on my factory Bridgestone RE050s. Iv'e gone nearly 30k on my RE050A PPs and they're about half worn. Proper alignment does amazing things.
The biggest problem with alignments is the guys doing them are usually minimum wage idiots. They don't understand the principles behind what alignment does, they just set up the car to show "good" on their computer controlled devices. It rarely results in good alignment for the performance driver, and frequently doesn't even meet the needs of the casual driver. There's a lot to be said for having someone who really knows what he's doing working on your car's alignment. Even if it is only toe adjustment.
For instance - how many alignment techs actually check air pressure before they do the alignment? Having the correct pressure in all four corners is critical to getting the alignment right. How many actually measure ride height? If the ride height isn't correct, NOTHING will be right according to the factory specs.
So, wearing out the outside or inside edges of your tires is NOT normal for any 2IS - it is a clear sign there is an issue with your alignment or possibly your driving.
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Inner edge wear should NOT happen again unless there is too much toe out - there is NO other reason. There isn't enough camber in this car to wear anything prematurely and camber isn't the issue at anything less than -2.5 degrees. The front is -0.8 and the rear is -1.5 - pretty normal for a factory alignment to ensure the car understeers.
I went 32k miles on my factory Bridgestone RE050s. Iv'e gone nearly 30k on my RE050A PPs and they're about half worn. Proper alignment does amazing things.
The biggest problem with alignments is the guys doing them are usually minimum wage idiots. They don't understand the principles behind what alignment does, they just set up the car to show "good" on their computer controlled devices. It rarely results in good alignment for the performance driver, and frequently doesn't even meet the needs of the casual driver. There's a lot to be said for having someone who really knows what he's doing working on your car's alignment. Even if it is only toe adjustment.
For instance - how many alignment techs actually check air pressure before they do the alignment? Having the correct pressure in all four corners is critical to getting the alignment right. How many actually measure ride height? If the ride height isn't correct, NOTHING will be right according to the factory specs.
So, wearing out the outside or inside edges of your tires is NOT normal for any 2IS - it is a clear sign there is an issue with your alignment or possibly your driving.
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08-27-09, 05:24 PM
#24
Tech Info Resource
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Just an FYI - my Supra runs -1.5 degrees on all four corners. I have no issues with inside (or outside) edge wear. When the alignment was at exactly the stock settings (3mm toe in at the rear) I burned through a set of D40M2s in 6k miles. I reduced the toe in to minimum spec - 1mm - and I never had another inside edge wear problem even with -1.5 degrees of camber. If you Google "lance alignment" you'll see what I came up with to fix the Supra's stock alignment.
So, if you go to arbitration with Lexus, you'll be shot down like a fool. They'll hire someone like me to show up with facts, figures, and geometric drawings and you'll lose. Guaranteed. Because camber doesn't wear out tires unless it exceeds -2.5 degrees. Toe will kill a tire at 0 degrees because toe is the biggest factor in tire wear for street drivers.
So, if you go to arbitration with Lexus, you'll be shot down like a fool. They'll hire someone like me to show up with facts, figures, and geometric drawings and you'll lose. Guaranteed. Because camber doesn't wear out tires unless it exceeds -2.5 degrees. Toe will kill a tire at 0 degrees because toe is the biggest factor in tire wear for street drivers.
08-28-09, 07:14 AM
#26
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Lobux: I live in Northern California and can't find a professional shop that actually measure the ride height and check the PSI. What is the recommended tire pressure for the alignment? I have aftermarket wheels. Also, is there any specific specs that I should tell about? I have the same issue as the OP and everyone else on the forum..
12-20-09, 04:23 PM
#27
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Back from the Dead
I'm having the same issues as the OP and others on this forum. Many have chimed in on alignment, yet I did not read one person give the recommended toe adjustment for front or rears that will eliminate (or at least slow down) the uneven treadwear on the inner block. The same goes for the camber, many people responding but no clear suggested measurement. I read a few saying their camber was -1.5. I know that the camber spec range is +.2 through -1.4 for the front and -.5 through -2.0 for the rear. I am riding on Tanabe NF210s which lower the front .8" and the rear 1". I get an alignment every 6 months and whenever I replace tires (which is more often than I should be).
I would appreciate feedback from those who know their toe/camber specs on their vehicle that is getting even tire treadwear.
I would appreciate feedback from those who know their toe/camber specs on their vehicle that is getting even tire treadwear.
Last edited by AZ06IS350; 12-21-09 at 10:29 AM.
