F-Sport suspension and ridiculous camber and tire wear
01-26-10, 06:04 PM
#61
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
You are correct as far as I can tell from the angle measurements.
01-26-10, 06:37 PM
#62
Pole Position
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: AZ,NV,HI
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wheel diameter has nothing to do with the problem. Your Megan rear camber kit won't solve your toe problem. Toe being "in spec" means nothing. Either it's right or it's not. Most often it is not right even after the genius running the magic computerized machine shows you're "in the green zone" because he has no clue about what alignment really means.
You don't have a front camber problem. You could set it to zero with your current toe and you'd STILL wear out the inside edges of your front tires.
I always marvel at how many STRUT guys come here and spout off about things they just don't understand when it comes to alignments.
Pull your alignment guy to the side and tell him he needs to fix your toe so it's at a DYNAMIC zero and watch his head explode because he has NO IDEA what the real problem is.
You don't have a front camber problem. You could set it to zero with your current toe and you'd STILL wear out the inside edges of your front tires.
I always marvel at how many STRUT guys come here and spout off about things they just don't understand when it comes to alignments.
Pull your alignment guy to the side and tell him he needs to fix your toe so it's at a DYNAMIC zero and watch his head explode because he has NO IDEA what the real problem is.
01-26-10, 06:56 PM
#63
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
^^no, I said you have an issue with toe. -2.1 isn't excessive. Camber is a non-factor at less than 2.5 degrees (+ or -). So fixing your "camber problem" without fixing the toe will still end up with no inside edges on your tires. My Supra runs -1.5 on all four corners and does not have unusual wear issues.
01-26-10, 07:18 PM
#64
Pole Position
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: AZ,NV,HI
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I will respectfully disagree with your statement about toe being my only problem because I just looked at the last 6 printouts I have for alignment over the past couple years and my front toe has been within .03 of the .09 you are suggesting, and I'm still getting that excessive inner edge wear. There was only one time that the left front got up to .20 and the right down to .00. Don't think I'm being argumentative as I am just trying to make sense of this issue. I am not an "alignment guy" but I have spoken with MANY who claim to be and I've gotten so many different opinions on what the problem is. I am willing to try something different, like your suggestions, but at this point I would like more to substantiate your assertion regarding the toe/camber. I am a "research guy" which is exactly what I have done over the past couple years to solve this issue, to no avail due to the inconsistency of information being fed to me.
Anyway, my front toe is currently at .05 both sides, not far off from your recommendation. What is your suggestion for rear toe and/or camber? I'm at .15 both sides and the camber is -.9 left side and -.7 right side for the rear.
Anyway, my front toe is currently at .05 both sides, not far off from your recommendation. What is your suggestion for rear toe and/or camber? I'm at .15 both sides and the camber is -.9 left side and -.7 right side for the rear.
01-26-10, 08:56 PM
#66
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
I will respectfully disagree with your statement about toe being my only problem because I just looked at the last 6 printouts I have for alignment over the past couple years and my front toe has been within .03 of the .09 you are suggesting, and I'm still getting that excessive inner edge wear. There was only one time that the left front got up to .20 and the right down to .00. Don't think I'm being argumentative as I am just trying to make sense of this issue. I am not an "alignment guy" but I have spoken with MANY who claim to be and I've gotten so many different opinions on what the problem is. I am willing to try something different, like your suggestions, but at this point I would like more to substantiate your assertion regarding the toe/camber. I am a "research guy" which is exactly what I have done over the past couple years to solve this issue, to no avail due to the inconsistency of information being fed to me.
Anyway, my front toe is currently at .05 both sides, not far off from your recommendation. What is your suggestion for rear toe and/or camber? I'm at .15 both sides and the camber is -.9 left side and -.7 right side for the rear.
Anyway, my front toe is currently at .05 both sides, not far off from your recommendation. What is your suggestion for rear toe and/or camber? I'm at .15 both sides and the camber is -.9 left side and -.7 right side for the rear.
01-26-10, 09:39 PM
#68
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
01-26-10, 09:58 PM
#70
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
OK - your offset is biased for appearance and now the scrub radius is moved by both the change in tire diameter and the lower offset in the wheels. You can pretty much throw out the standard alignment settings because they're intended for stock wheels with stock offsets and stock ride height. You have none of these conditions.
If you're still getting inside edge wear with the numbers I posted, I'd toe in the front more - something like 0.14 on both sides - aiming for maximum spec on toe in because your set up is so different than stock.
Here's a really good description of scrub radius and the effects of changing it.
Here's a pretty good article from Ingalls Engineering on toe effects.
Keep in mind, because you've made some pretty dramatic geometry changes to the OEM setup, you will NOT be able to expect the same tire life as the stock setup without a LOT of experimentation.
Oh, and don't feel bad about having such a hard time with this - I once had a dealership mechanic try to tell me wider wheels affected turning radius (they don't) because he misunderstood scrub radius and tried to make me believe turning radius and scrub radius are somehow one in the same (they're not at all the same.)
If you're still getting inside edge wear with the numbers I posted, I'd toe in the front more - something like 0.14 on both sides - aiming for maximum spec on toe in because your set up is so different than stock.
Here's a really good description of scrub radius and the effects of changing it.
Here's a pretty good article from Ingalls Engineering on toe effects.
Keep in mind, because you've made some pretty dramatic geometry changes to the OEM setup, you will NOT be able to expect the same tire life as the stock setup without a LOT of experimentation.
Oh, and don't feel bad about having such a hard time with this - I once had a dealership mechanic try to tell me wider wheels affected turning radius (they don't) because he misunderstood scrub radius and tried to make me believe turning radius and scrub radius are somehow one in the same (they're not at all the same.)
Last edited by lobuxracer; 01-26-10 at 10:13 PM.
01-27-10, 02:51 PM
#72
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
Now you know why I look for stock offsets in aftermarket wheels whenever possible. At least I know I'll have stock performance. The bad part about lower offsets or spacers is it reduces scrub radius which reduces steering feel and feedback as well as putting a greater stress on the wheel bearings.
01-27-10, 03:52 PM
#73
Pole Position
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: AZ,NV,HI
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lobuxracer, I do appreciate the articles and other information. Over the past year I have been regretting the purchase of these wheels for a multitude of reasons, this being one of them. In the future I will be getting the G-Spiders 
as I think those are hot! Know anyone who wants to buy 20" wheels?
as I think those are hot! Know anyone who wants to buy 20" wheels?
01-27-10, 03:53 PM
#74
Pole Position
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: AZ,NV,HI
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now you know why I look for stock offsets in aftermarket wheels whenever possible. At least I know I'll have stock performance. The bad part about lower offsets or spacers is it reduces scrub radius which reduces steering feel and feedback as well as putting a greater stress on the wheel bearings.
01-27-10, 04:14 PM
#75
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
Here's the full scoop on the OEM wheels:
