Adjustable traction rod question and some other things worth mentioning.
01-26-10, 10:16 AM
#33
I cant tell you how long to make the links. Each car is different and the settings for one will not work for all. You need to play with the length and find out whats good for your car.
The main reason why you change out the links is to get rid of the rubber bushing which causes slop and sometimes wheel hop. Playing with the length will have an overall effect as to how the suspension works. I dont think the effect is too significant that its manditory to adjust, which is why I usually suggest to people to just run them at the stock length. Changing the upright angle will mostly change the rear bumpsteer.
The main reason why you change out the links is to get rid of the rubber bushing which causes slop and sometimes wheel hop. Playing with the length will have an overall effect as to how the suspension works. I dont think the effect is too significant that its manditory to adjust, which is why I usually suggest to people to just run them at the stock length. Changing the upright angle will mostly change the rear bumpsteer.
Last edited by BattleVer; 01-26-10 at 10:20 AM.
01-26-10, 02:01 PM
#34
No, the one set is for the front diff mounts. The ear mounts. They fit perfectly without any modification. They are MUCH deeper than the set that is supposed to be for the subframe. The center sleeves of the diff bushings fit into into the collar perfectly. They are basically the exact same thing as the stock parts but solid.
It's just the frame mount I'm not convinced on. Also, the rear frame mounts are completely different, nothing like the front frame mounts or the front diff mounts.
I don't know if something is different about it, but it should be noted that these parts are sold for the Toyota Soarer, not the Lexus SC400. So, maybe something is different? Maybe they are made for a 5-speed frame and something is different about it?
I'll try and take some installed pics on the front diff ear mount collars later but if you go down to the earlier post by Biggu, you'll see that they fit.
So, can you not explain how to adjust the traction rods? If you have info please share it.
KC
It's just the frame mount I'm not convinced on. Also, the rear frame mounts are completely different, nothing like the front frame mounts or the front diff mounts.
I don't know if something is different about it, but it should be noted that these parts are sold for the Toyota Soarer, not the Lexus SC400. So, maybe something is different? Maybe they are made for a 5-speed frame and something is different about it?
I'll try and take some installed pics on the front diff ear mount collars later but if you go down to the earlier post by Biggu, you'll see that they fit.
So, can you not explain how to adjust the traction rods? If you have info please share it.
KC
01-26-10, 03:47 PM
#35
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KC and guys,
I don't think you guys are actually understanding the parts you purchased. The ones you are having trouble with are doing exactly what they are intended to do. Yes they are made to get rid of the slop of the oem rubber bushings so everything is going to be alot more harsh. You took away any give in there and now all the shock or jarring energy is transfered directly to the chassi. My guess is another big thing these are made for is to raise the subframe to help lowered cars keep better suspension geometry like the solid subframe risers they sell for s-chassis. I could possibly be wrong there however.
Anyway I was going to do these a while ago but drove a friends s13 with them first. NOT A GOOD THING TO DRIVE DAILY AT ALL. After 30 minutes around town my body hurt.
I don't think you guys are actually understanding the parts you purchased. The ones you are having trouble with are doing exactly what they are intended to do. Yes they are made to get rid of the slop of the oem rubber bushings so everything is going to be alot more harsh. You took away any give in there and now all the shock or jarring energy is transfered directly to the chassi. My guess is another big thing these are made for is to raise the subframe to help lowered cars keep better suspension geometry like the solid subframe risers they sell for s-chassis. I could possibly be wrong there however.
Anyway I was going to do these a while ago but drove a friends s13 with them first. NOT A GOOD THING TO DRIVE DAILY AT ALL. After 30 minutes around town my body hurt.
01-26-10, 05:36 PM
#36
Some updates guys.
So far I have installed.
Sway bar links front and rear.
Diff collars.
Rack bushings.
Traction Rods.
Still waiting on my CA bushings, sway bar bushings and the Megan toe adjusting rods. Still trying to decide wether or not to order new rear subframe mounts. Does anyone know if the Supra parts are the same?
For now, I set the traction rods pretty close to stock length. Sway bar links were a pita, had to cut most of them off. Love the diff collars by themselves. Not as impressed with the rack bushings as I thought I'd be but then again, my bushings weren't really that bad to start with.
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Makes sense I guess. Question on anti-squat. If the car doesn't squat as much, is the suspension, in theory, pusing the wheels down to the ground harder during acceloration?
I believe you but I still don't think that even with the modification, they sit 100% correctly onto my car. I really think they are supposed to fit around the bushings center sleeve, like the diff collars do.
I do understand the purpose I guess its just allot harsher than I expected. On my car, with the diff collars AND the subframe collars, it was mostly the "loose shock" type noise I had that was bothering me. Maybe normal I guess. Doesn't really feel like anything is loose just allot of banging noises.
With just the diff collars, there is no banging noise. I can however, I think, actually feel the rear frame moving a bit more on the OEM bushings. Makes sense that taking the play out of the diff, wich is attatched to the frame, would make the frame move around more.
I have something that I'm trying which may help get rid of the banging but still stiffen up the frame a bit. I have already done it and it has helped with the stiffening but still has an occasional bang but I might have a fix.
KC
So far I have installed.
Sway bar links front and rear.
Diff collars.
Rack bushings.
Traction Rods.
Still waiting on my CA bushings, sway bar bushings and the Megan toe adjusting rods. Still trying to decide wether or not to order new rear subframe mounts. Does anyone know if the Supra parts are the same?
For now, I set the traction rods pretty close to stock length. Sway bar links were a pita, had to cut most of them off. Love the diff collars by themselves. Not as impressed with the rack bushings as I thought I'd be but then again, my bushings weren't really that bad to start with.
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Originally Posted by BattleVer
I cant tell you how long to make the links. Each car is different and the settings for one will not work for all. You need to play with the length and find out whats good for your car.
The main reason why you change out the links is to get rid of the rubber bushing which causes slop and sometimes wheel hop. Playing with the length will have an overall effect as to how the suspension works. I dont think the effect is too significant that its manditory to adjust, which is why I usually suggest to people to just run them at the stock length. Changing the upright angle will mostly change the rear bumpsteer.
The main reason why you change out the links is to get rid of the rubber bushing which causes slop and sometimes wheel hop. Playing with the length will have an overall effect as to how the suspension works. I dont think the effect is too significant that its manditory to adjust, which is why I usually suggest to people to just run them at the stock length. Changing the upright angle will mostly change the rear bumpsteer.
Originally Posted by Biggu
Kc your right, the mounts are made for a soarer and the mounts are different. If you dont believe me call up the guys at powered by max and they will tell you that you need to remove the ring to get them to fit.
Originally Posted by TheRonTom3
KC and guys,
I don't think you guys are actually understanding the parts you purchased. The ones you are having trouble with are doing exactly what they are intended to do. Yes they are made to get rid of the slop of the oem rubber bushings so everything is going to be alot more harsh. You took away any give in there and now all the shock or jarring energy is transfered directly to the chassi. My guess is another big thing these are made for is to raise the subframe to help lowered cars keep better suspension geometry like the solid subframe risers they sell for s-chassis. I could possibly be wrong there however.
Anyway I was going to do these a while ago but drove a friends s13 with them first. NOT A GOOD THING TO DRIVE DAILY AT ALL. After 30 minutes around town my body hurt.
I don't think you guys are actually understanding the parts you purchased. The ones you are having trouble with are doing exactly what they are intended to do. Yes they are made to get rid of the slop of the oem rubber bushings so everything is going to be alot more harsh. You took away any give in there and now all the shock or jarring energy is transfered directly to the chassi. My guess is another big thing these are made for is to raise the subframe to help lowered cars keep better suspension geometry like the solid subframe risers they sell for s-chassis. I could possibly be wrong there however.
Anyway I was going to do these a while ago but drove a friends s13 with them first. NOT A GOOD THING TO DRIVE DAILY AT ALL. After 30 minutes around town my body hurt.
With just the diff collars, there is no banging noise. I can however, I think, actually feel the rear frame moving a bit more on the OEM bushings. Makes sense that taking the play out of the diff, wich is attatched to the frame, would make the frame move around more.
I have something that I'm trying which may help get rid of the banging but still stiffen up the frame a bit. I have already done it and it has helped with the stiffening but still has an occasional bang but I might have a fix.
KC
01-26-10, 08:32 PM
#37
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For drag racing you dont want Anti-squat, the squat and front raising gives you weight transfer, thats what you need to put the power down. Thats why drag shocks and drag coilovers are valved to let the front raise and the back drop. Back in the day we put 90/10 shocks on our muscle cars for this purpose. If you make the back stiff it will spin.
01-26-10, 09:00 PM
#38
For drag racing you dont want Anti-squat, the squat and front raising gives you weight transfer, thats what you need to put the power down. Thats why drag shocks and drag coilovers are valved to let the front raise and the back drop. Back in the day we put 90/10 shocks on our muscle cars for this purpose. If you make the back stiff it will spin.
But, if you ever watch a properlly set up drag car, they don't squat. I've seen a few where the body actually appears to lift. In theory, a good setup will push the suspension down on the road rather than the body of the car compressing onto the suspension. At least that's my take.
If you think about it, all the energy it takes to make the car squat is completely wasted. It would be better, again in theory, to have instant forward energy rather than a downward in the rear then a forward energy.
I really don't have any idea what I'm talking about though. Suspension isn't really my thing.
KC
01-27-10, 04:47 AM
#39
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I guess I agree with you for the most part. Squat in the rear is not ideal, the perfect set up would be rigid. This of course assumes you dont have a traction problem. Removing weight from the front of the car, moving weight from front to back (i.e., battery relocation) or removing the front stabilizer bar, will allow the nose to rise on launch, thus placing more of the vehicle's weight on the rear tires. Good weight transfer is a Hallmark of an efficient race car. All this said, if you have a traction problem then the front will never rise and you spin. So my theory is that some squat will get the car started to rise and assist with weight transfer, that is nothing but a half baked theroy so it could be way off. 
01-27-10, 07:15 AM
#40
I guess, again in theory, it is possible to have efficient weight transfer with little or reduced squat. ??
Anyway, on my car, watching a video I have at the track (not the one posted on youtube) my rear tires camber in severly. This could not be good for traction, more camber either way would mean less tire contact.
I'd be willing to bet that toe and camber settings could have a noticeable impact on 1/4 mile times. Toe being anything more than 0 being much harder to push down the track.
KC
Anyway, on my car, watching a video I have at the track (not the one posted on youtube) my rear tires camber in severly. This could not be good for traction, more camber either way would mean less tire contact.
I'd be willing to bet that toe and camber settings could have a noticeable impact on 1/4 mile times. Toe being anything more than 0 being much harder to push down the track.
KC
I guess I agree with you for the most part. Squat in the rear is not ideal, the perfect set up would be rigid. This of course assumes you dont have a traction problem. Removing weight from the front of the car, moving weight from front to back (i.e., battery relocation) or removing the front stabilizer bar, will allow the nose to rise on launch, thus placing more of the vehicle's weight on the rear tires. Good weight transfer is a Hallmark of an efficient race car. All this said, if you have a traction problem then the front will never rise and you spin. So my theory is that some squat will get the car started to rise and assist with weight transfer, that is nothing but a half baked theroy so it could be way off.
02-04-10, 05:49 PM
#41
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I am getting ready to redo all my suspension. A few questions for you guys.
How much< do you have pictures?
Will you make me a set?
Those are cool, Are they worth putting in?
I want those arms too! Where do i get them? I should have never got on this site! To much stuff to buy!
I got the stuff ordered from poweredbymax.net today. To be clear, the four on the left are for the diff ear mounts and the four on the right are for the two front subframe bushings.
I'm not really sure yet how these things install but I think they simply sit over the stock bushings.
KC
I'm not really sure yet how these things install but I think they simply sit over the stock bushings.
KC
02-04-10, 07:13 PM
#42
Damn you should see my traction rods/toe rods/ rlca's I am making now (for my supra but essentially a very similar design as the sc) LOL, they are so beefy, they make the other aftermarket ones look like tin foil haha. Too bad I wont spill the beans just yet - but they are billet arm/clevis with a large aurora rod end... thats all the info you get Not for the faint at heart, or shallow pockets.
What is nice about most aftermarket trac arms... as long as they are stronger than the stock arms, wheelhop should be reduced...on the MK3's they bend all the time, did not notice that much on the SC though.
Not for the faint at heart, or shallow pockets. What is nice about most aftermarket trac arms... as long as they are stronger than the stock arms, wheelhop should be reduced...on the MK3's they bend all the time, did not notice that much on the SC though.
Last edited by RedPhoenix; 02-04-10 at 07:33 PM.
02-12-10, 08:55 AM
#43
So I was planning on installing the front and rear CA bushings today but I'm still waiting on the rear set. I was going to go ahead and install the fronts today anyway but BOTH of the alignment racks at work are broken!
Also, still need to install the rear toe rods.
Also, I put on the sway bar bushings a week or two ago. Amazed at the difference. Much more noticeable than the steering rack bushings were.
Hopefully, if I have the rear set within the next week or two, I can install everything in one shot and only need to do one alignment.
Tomorrow, weather permitting, I'm going to the 1/4 mile. Really hoping to run ANYTHING with the first two numbers being eleven.
Red - Any pics yet?
KC
Also, still need to install the rear toe rods.
Also, I put on the sway bar bushings a week or two ago. Amazed at the difference. Much more noticeable than the steering rack bushings were.
Hopefully, if I have the rear set within the next week or two, I can install everything in one shot and only need to do one alignment.
Tomorrow, weather permitting, I'm going to the 1/4 mile. Really hoping to run ANYTHING with the first two numbers being eleven.
Red - Any pics yet?
KC
02-19-10, 06:02 PM
#44
Update on my progress.....
Didn't run the 1/4 due to snow. Still awaiting the rear Prothane kit.
Since the bushing install has been put off a bit, I've decided to also get new struts, strut mounts and boots. went with the Tokico Supra Illuminas since I already have Supra struts and springs. Also, Tokico rear mounts and front and rear boots. Ordered Supra front mounts from work (OEM Toyota). So I'll only be re-using the springs.
So, between what I've already done and what I have planned, I'll basically be rebuilding the entire suspension, short of having new ball joints.
There is a set of adjustable rear upper control arms on ebay (made by TC Sportline) I've been looking at but I've decided to hold out and see where I can get my rear camber to sit with all the new stuff installed first. I've already spen way too much. LOL.
KC
Didn't run the 1/4 due to snow.
Still awaiting the rear Prothane kit.Since the bushing install has been put off a bit, I've decided to also get new struts, strut mounts and boots. went with the Tokico Supra Illuminas since I already have Supra struts and springs. Also, Tokico rear mounts and front and rear boots. Ordered Supra front mounts from work (OEM Toyota). So I'll only be re-using the springs.
So, between what I've already done and what I have planned, I'll basically be rebuilding the entire suspension, short of having new ball joints.
There is a set of adjustable rear upper control arms on ebay (made by TC Sportline) I've been looking at but I've decided to hold out and see where I can get my rear camber to sit with all the new stuff installed first. I've already spen way too much. LOL.
KC
03-05-10, 08:39 PM
#45
I finally have everything together!
Planned for next Friday - New front and rear CA bushings, the Megan rear toe rods, new front and rear Tokico Illumina's, new front and rear strut mounts and new strut bellows all the way around.
Already done - Megan traction rods, front and rear sway bar bushings, new front and rear sway bar links, and steering rack bushing.
Also, should be able to make a few 1/4 passes tomorrow AND next Friday.
KC
Planned for next Friday - New front and rear CA bushings, the Megan rear toe rods, new front and rear Tokico Illumina's, new front and rear strut mounts and new strut bellows all the way around.
Already done - Megan traction rods, front and rear sway bar bushings, new front and rear sway bar links, and steering rack bushing.
Also, should be able to make a few 1/4 passes tomorrow AND next Friday.
KC