vespid82

This is a rather lengthy story, but I'll try to be pretty concise with it! Here goes...

I had a wheel bearing issue for quite a while. The usual creaking / squeeking noise from my right rear wheel. It eventually led to a vibration that could be felt at just about any speed over 30 MPH and would only increase as I went faster.

After removing the wheel, I discovered the dreaded loose axle nut and of course the chewed up hub that had the "step down" in size towards the center of the car from metal to metal contact.

I proceeded to get a used hub / axle carrier from a complete rear end, assuming it had an intact wheel bearing. Wrong! Ended up with the same creaking as soon as I finished installing it, as well as the same vibration.

Now, I'll pause here to explain what the vibration is being caused by, at least that I see. Picture an SC400 up on jack stands. Now, start the car and put it in drive. Looking at the outside edge of the wheel, you see that it is NOT rolling straight towards the front of the car. In fact, it's as if the wheel bearing and hub AREN'T perpendicular to the axle carrier. I will try my best to describe it another way.

Hold your right arm out in front of you.

Now, point your index finger straight out.

Now, bend your wrist 90 degrees to the left, with your index finger still extended so that it's pointing straight to the left.

Now, moving ONLY your index finger, rotate your finger like you're making a circle.

For this case, your arm would be my car, and your index finger is the off-center axis that my wheel is spinning on, causing it to vibrate through the entire car!

Sorry for the lengthy explanation, but there's a bit more to the story. Just this afternoon, I took my original hub to a mechanic. I had a brand new pair of oil seals and bearing installed. Everything felt tight as a drum! I put the axle carrier back in the car and it seemed to roll straight. Then, I reinstalled the axle, brake rotor and caliper, put the wheel on, put it in drive... same damn off center axis. Now, keep in mind this is a BRAND NEW BEARING, nut tightened to specs. I even put an old stock wheel on the car to see if perhaps the wheel was bent some how. Same vibration / off center situation.

Now, I am asking if ANYONE here has ANY input on what this could be! Could the axle somehow he bent and causing this to happen? It doesn't LOOK bent, though. Also, I would assume that even if the axle shaft was bent, the second the splines went into the hub, it should still roll straight since the point of rotation is the bearing, and not straight off the axle. I am wondering if maybe it needs another 4 wheel alignment since the last one was about 6 years ago, maybe a little longer. If ANYONE has ANY input or suggestions, they'd be GREATLY appreciated. Thank you!

SChema

iTrader: (2)

I'm not sure if I'm picturing it right? If it's not loose then it seems like the toe adjustment.
Looking from the top of the car and picturing both wheels at the same time you can have these three if picturing toe only. Top is the front of the car.

Toe-in: / \
0 : | |
Toe-out: \ /

vespid82

Well, I can use your slashes to kind of make an "animation of how the wheel is rolling. Look at the slashes from top to bottom. This is how the wheel is rolling down the road.

\
|
/
|
\
|
/
|
\

If it's a toe issue, wouldn't it stay in one of those three positions and continue to roll that way (and chew up the tires), or am I mistaken? I noticed one more little tidbit of information last night. The creaking noise came back again last night, but ONLY when moving forward. I can put the car in drive and at the SAME point of the wheel's rotation, I can feel it "bind" and make the creaking sound. But when I put it in reverse there is NO creaking sound or binding feeling, which makes me think the drive system might be the culprit somehow. I haven't been outside the car with it in reverse yet to see if the wheel rolls any straighter in reverse or not yet, but I'm about to this morning. By the way, thanks for the response!

SChema

iTrader: (2)

Did this start recently or has it been like that as long as you owned the car? Has that part of the of the car suffered and damage? Potholes, curbed?

The way the wheel is rotating almost seems like it's bent? Do you have wheel that you know that is "true" you can mount to see if it does the same thing?

The hub/bearing may not have been seated properly. You could go back and double check everything comparing it to the other side.

Hopefully this gets resolved for you.

vespid82

I started noticing the creaking sound a while ago and that's actually my next point to "investigate" because it gets louder as I drive, which I don't get. The wobble / vibration had gotten progressively worse over time, but I'd say it'd been close to a year that I'd noticed it, but I hadn't been driving the car every single day. As for the wheels, this is the second set of wheels I've had on the car that it's done this with. The driver's side wheel rolls straight and I even put it on the passenger side to check to see if in fact the wheel may have gotten bent somehow, but it wobbles the EXACT same way. Put it back on the driver's side, smooth as it's supposed to be. I also put an old stock wheel on, same wobble. I thought maybe my aftermarket rotors may have been uneven somehow, so I disconnected the caliper, removed the rotor and mounted the wheel directly to the hub! Same wobble. Needless to say, I am BEYOND frustrated with this at the moment...

UPDATE on the creaking sound. I just put my car up on jackstands, laid under it with my face directly under the rear end. I started turning the passenger side wheel and heard the SAME creaking noise I hear when driving... but from the inner boot of the DRIVER'S side axle shaft! It also bound up and became a little harder to turn at the SAME point when the creaking sounded the tightest. So, I'm thinking that since it's so close to the center of the car, and I usually heard it bouncing off of vehicles /walls to my right, I assumed the noise was coming from the passenger side! I doubt this will fix the off center "wobble" but if I can track down these gremlins one by one, it'll definitely make me feel better!

good2go

iTrader: (6)

I'm thinking bent axle (or possibly even a messed up diff ...although, I can't really see how it could transmit out to the wheel) and some severely worn rear CA bushings. If it were mine, I'd put the entire rear up on stands (SECURELY!!), start it, and put it in drive and observe the axle, hub, and wheel for off-axis movement. You shouldn't even need to rev it, just idling in gear should be enough rpms to see it.

vespid82

Ok, I am STILL trying to figure this out. I just took a few videos, so it might be able to show what I'm trying to explain a little better. This is with the brake rotor off, and the wheel mounted directly to the hub, so that rules any sort of misshapen rotor being the culprit out of the equation. This was taken with my phone so the framerate it's captured at is really low and it makes it look like the wobble is really slow, but trust me, it's about 10 times as fast as it looks in this video. It's definitely enough to vibrate the whole car!

I think this first one really shows it best! Keep in mind, this is with a bearing that was replaced less than 24 hours ago!
http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...=kdk_10053.mp4

http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...=kdk_10051.mp4

http://s19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...=kdk_10052.mp4

vespid82

Just ran the car again and the differential is noisy as can be and I'm pretty sure it's getting louder! It almost looks like the passenger side axle (the one that's got the wobble) is actually moving in and out of the diff about 1/8th of an inch or so with each rotation as well. Long story short, this is turning into a nightmare. Selling this damn thing and getting an SC430 is looking more and more appealing...

good2go

iTrader: (6)

Still seems far fetched, but that's kinda what I was referring to about the diff. Could it be something is messed up on one of the angle cut teeth and it's casing the axle to deflect away from it (simultaneously bending it radially, and pushing it back axially because of the bevel cut) with each rotation of the axle. The odd thing is, that this would still need some pretty worn LCA bushings to show up as wobble at the wheel. Your vids show the wheel clearly moving (and remember that movement is amplified as you get farther out from the center), but could you detect the hub assembly moving too? It would be harder to detect that close to the axis, but maybe you could stand up a block (underneath the car) or something else stationary, and move it in close to the back of the hub to use a visual reference for any motion happening there. Do the same at the diff where the axle exits. You said it moves in/out an 1/8", but does it also wobble side to side there? Even just a tiny amount? (Again, even a fraction of an inch of wobble at the axis is multiplied as you move out radially).


Of course this is all assuming that this isn't just something more obvious (ie. a bad bearing replacement job, bent wheel, hub centric spacer mixup, etc.)

vespid82

Alright, I'm pretty sure the issue is my differential... which is apparently shot! I got under the car with it running, in gear and the same vibration running through the entire car. Looking at the passenger side axle (which was the only one spinning with both rear wheels off the ground) and didn't really notice much deflection like I thought I would. Then, I looked at the driver's side axle! It wasn't turning, but looking at the end of the axle where it meets to the differential, you could see it moving back and forth with just as much deflection of center with every rotation of the other wheel as you see in that video. So, I KNOW something inside the diff = effed. Seeing that, coupled with the fact that my diff is now noisy as all hell has me pretty sure THAT'S the issue. Probably what caused the bearing to wear out too!

SChema

iTrader: (2)

I wouldn't really go as far as selling car right away, differentials can be had fairly cheap, shipping sucks though. I remembering reading, the diff should be interchangeable with several Lexus/Toyota cars. You'll have to account for the change of gear ratios, can't remember which cars share the same ratio. Should be able to find one locally and work out fine.

good2go

iTrader: (6)

WOW...I'd give a nickel to see just what's going on in THAT diff


But, like 3rotor said, diff's are pretty cheap...especially an open diff. They swap out fairly straightforward as a whole unit, and don't require any specialized/precision mechanical skills; basic wrenching will do it

Look around and I'm sure you'll find one reasonably priced. G/L

vespid82

(I know a lot of these words are going to be censored out, but typing them out helps with my frustration a little, so I'm doing it anyway)

Ok, **** THIS MOTHER****ING CAR! I honestly almost took a torque wrench to every ****ing panel this afteroon! Good thing the paint and body look so damn good...

Replacing the differential did NOT fix the issue. Same off-axis wobble, same ****ing vibration, same **** with more money pissed away on it! My ONLY guess is that somehow the old bearing damaged the knuckle / axle carrier, considering it has the EXACT SAME SYMPTOMS as when ALL this started MONTHS ago.

Different hub, different half shaft, different differential, brand new bearing... WTF?!

good2go

iTrader: (6)

Ok....this is truly weird and you have my full sympathies

At this point in troubleshooting, I usually figure it's one of two things: either I've totally blown it and overlooked something really simple, straightforward, and obvious that I had already dismissed (because it was so much so), or it's an even more bizarre problem than I could have ever imagined. Statistically, for me, it's more often the former

So, plodding on . . .

What condition were the diff mounts in when you swapped it?
Is there any chance the main driveshaft is bent and causing the entire diff to wobble back and forth on sloppy diff mounts? (I don't really even think that's possible, but I'm running out of plausible causes for all the symptoms you've reported). Also, did you ever verify what condition are the rear LCA bushings in?

vespid82

Oh, I'm in total agreement with you there and I have tried to think of the simplest answers first! No luck yet, though!

The drive shaft looks to be in perfect working order. I see no vibration or play in it. In fact, I replaced the transmission mount not too long ago as well as the rear "donut" coupler that looked a bit worn. The vibration and off axis wobble was already present before changing these things though. Either way, I know it's not coming from the drive shaft because I actually spun the wheel by hand WITHOUT the drive shaft connected today but with the half shaft attached to the replacement differential and it STILL wobbled. I Even disconnected the driver's side half shaft... still wobbled.

The diff mounts looked good. The only thing was one very thin piece of loose rubber about 1/4 wide and an inch long that was frayed out from the edge, but nothing looks worn and torn apart. Also, the LCA bushings appear to be worn, but nothing TOO dramatic. There's no play in them or any movement when the wheel is turning either. It's like all the problem is coming from within the bearing area... which was JUST replaced. Tomorrow, I'm driving it to the shop I took the knuckle to when I had the bearing pressed it and going to ask if he has ANY idea what it could be. Because at this point, with him having pressed the oil seals and bearing in, he's had the most "intimate" experience with it. It's driving me up the damn WALL though!

ALSO, a couple other bits of information that may or may not be helpful. When all of this started, the passenger side rear wheel will make a creaking sound that gets LOUDER as I drive it. I drive it for 30 seconds, nothing. Drive it for 2 minutes, it makes a little sound, but it's pretty intermittent. I drive it for 10 minutes and it sounds like my lugs are loose when in fact they're not! Secondly, the brake rotor is a good indicator of how far off axis the hub is rotating. I can put the car in neutral and roll it with my hand. You can HEAR the rotor brushing against the pads at the SAME point of rotation every single time. Also, I know it's not just an uneven rotor because it still has all these symptoms / wobbles with the wheel bolted directly to the hub and the rotor and caliper removed.

By the way, thanks for all the input you guys. At least someone's listening! Hey, maybe once I figure it out and any other unlucky soul has the same problem, they can search for this and figure it out a LOT sooner and cheaper than I!