12-16-14, 12:01 PM
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EBC Redstuff Brake Pads Review
01-06-11, 02:45 PM
#16
Not discounting your references (by the way, do you work for Stoptech for you reference them in nearly all of your posts concerning brakes) my non-scientific rear end and visual observations with no change in how I apply the brakes, I am coming up at least 1 car length furhter behind the vehicle in front of me when coming to a stop. As you stated, "unless there was something wrong with the original brakes" I guess there was in the inferior material Lexus uses in their brake pads as compared to EBC's.
Are you engaging ABS when you stop?
Because if not you aren't trying to stop in the shortest possible distance with either set of pads so you'd have no idea what your actual stopping distance is with either set (which should be identical unless your tires changed)
I could certainly believe aftermarket pads could result in stopping the car shorter when doing partial braking, but it's still taking longer to stop than it could if you just pushed the pedal harder and that's pretty useless information unless your only goal is to operate the brakes without pushing the pedal quite as hard.
If you want your actual stopping distance (ie the shortest distance your car can stop from a given speed) to be reduced the way to do that is stickier tires, not a pad change.
With maximum pedal pressure it's physically impossible for a pad change to change your stopping distance unless the original pads were incapable of engaging ABS (which I assure you the OEM lexus pads can do easily).
01-06-11, 05:22 PM
#17
Are you engaging ABS when you stop?
Because if not you aren't trying to stop in the shortest possible distance with either set of pads so you'd have no idea what your actual stopping distance is with either set (which should be identical unless your tires changed)
I could certainly believe aftermarket pads could result in stopping the car shorter when doing partial braking, but it's still taking longer to stop than it could if you just pushed the pedal harder and that's pretty useless information unless your only goal is to operate the brakes without pushing the pedal quite as hard.
If you want your actual stopping distance (ie the shortest distance your car can stop from a given speed) to be reduced the way to do that is stickier tires, not a pad change.
With maximum pedal pressure it's physically impossible for a pad change to change your stopping distance unless the original pads were incapable of engaging ABS (which I assure you the OEM lexus pads can do easily).
Because if not you aren't trying to stop in the shortest possible distance with either set of pads so you'd have no idea what your actual stopping distance is with either set (which should be identical unless your tires changed)
I could certainly believe aftermarket pads could result in stopping the car shorter when doing partial braking, but it's still taking longer to stop than it could if you just pushed the pedal harder and that's pretty useless information unless your only goal is to operate the brakes without pushing the pedal quite as hard.
If you want your actual stopping distance (ie the shortest distance your car can stop from a given speed) to be reduced the way to do that is stickier tires, not a pad change.
With maximum pedal pressure it's physically impossible for a pad change to change your stopping distance unless the original pads were incapable of engaging ABS (which I assure you the OEM lexus pads can do easily).
OEM pad it takes 80% effort to reach 80% braking power, therefore he has only been using 50% effort and was only using 50% of his maximum stopping power.
New pad it takes 20% effort to reach 80% braking power, therefore he is stopping quicker because his average braking power used now is greater than the OEM's 50% when he is using same or less effort.
01-06-11, 06:46 PM
#18
I think he is stopping quicker is because:
OEM pad it takes 80% effort to reach 80% braking power, therefore he has only been using 50% effort and was only using 50% of his maximum stopping power.
New pad it takes 20% effort to reach 80% braking power, therefore he is stopping quicker because his average braking power used now is greater than the OEM's 50% when he is using same or less effort.
OEM pad it takes 80% effort to reach 80% braking power, therefore he has only been using 50% effort and was only using 50% of his maximum stopping power.
New pad it takes 20% effort to reach 80% braking power, therefore he is stopping quicker because his average braking power used now is greater than the OEM's 50% when he is using same or less effort.
personally when not panic stopping I prefer a more linear pad that gives you a wider range of effort/braking so you can have smoother and more linear control over partial-effort stops... (this is the group of folks who liked the TSIB low dust pads)... some folks seem to prefer the on/off feeling of the pre-TSIB pads though, and those folks might well perceive value in using other aftermarket pads... but they still won't reduce their ultimate shortest stopping distance, because pads can't change that.
01-07-11, 05:42 AM
#19
Kurtz, we all know by now that the tires are what stop the car, and changing the brakes can't shorten stopping distance...so what is your advice on a track setup pad/rotor combo that can help with brake fade, not break the bank, and be suitable for street use as well (I know slotted rotors will shorten pad life, I can live with that)...thanks!
01-07-11, 06:40 AM
#20
Kurtz, we all know by now that the tires are what stop the car, and changing the brakes can't shorten stopping distance...so what is your advice on a track setup pad/rotor combo that can help with brake fade, not break the bank, and be suitable for street use as well (I know slotted rotors will shorten pad life, I can live with that)...thanks!
Slotted certainly would be a good way to go (but not drilled) and I'd trust anything from stoptech or brembo on rotors but size-wise depends on what you're doing with the car... pads are even more application specific, especially if you're willing to swap race pads on just for track use.... Performance Friction, Hawk, and Carbotech are some names I generally hear good things about (I used PF personally on my last car I did much track stuff with) but not sure if they all have 2IS applications and autocross, drift, time attack, circle tracks, rally, endurance, etc all will have different needs too...
Probably your best bet if you plan to do this much is to visit the location you want to race at, see how bad the fade is with your stock setup... if it's light duty and the OEM brakes aren't awful you might could get by with just pads for track days, or you might need to drop more coin on bigger slotted rotors as well... and talk to some of the guys running good times there, see what they use (rotor size for the cars similar to yours, and pad-wise especially- compound, brand, etc)... talk to em about not only what they like, but why. Be aware that the "best" for many track applications won't be fun on the street.
01-07-11, 07:18 AM
#21
Kurtz, we all know by now that the tires are what stop the car, and changing the brakes can't shorten stopping distance...so what is your advice on a track setup pad/rotor combo that can help with brake fade, not break the bank, and be suitable for street use as well (I know slotted rotors will shorten pad life, I can live with that)...thanks!
If you want to reduce brake fading, one of the cheaper alternative where you don't have to gut your current brake system, is to add cooling ducts. If you can get a good amount of air flow to the hat (center) of the rotors, you can improve cooling dramatically. It's one of the more overlooked things because people are so quick to swap expensive brake components to improve the thermal capacity. It's a natural intuition I suppose. If I'm getting the same braking performance from two different brakes setup on the track, I much rather go with the OEM that's cooler, than a hot aftermarket setup. Not to mention, your daily drive will still be the same.
If you're still getting fade after the cooling ducts, then you should look at pads/rotors or whatever you need.
01-07-11, 01:18 PM
#22
Sorry for the delayed reply guys...flew up to NYC today, not the best weather for travel this morning...
Here is what I plan to do with the brakes...keep the stock calipers, but change the pads, rotors, rubber lines, and fluid...
The IS will not see a ton of track time, but I will throw it around a bit until I get a dedicated track car...so that is the reasoning behind not springing for a BBK...
The track event coming up is at Roebling Road, and those of you who know this track understand why I am a bit concerned with brake fade with the stock brakes...on the main straight, we were hitting 140mph (in the AMG CLK55) before going hard on the brakes into turn 1...I know I might not be getting up to that speed, and the Merc never experienced brake fade, but it has massive BBKs both front and back...I would rather be safe than sorry
I was advised about Hawk pads already, but they don't make pads for the IS350, EBC was the next recommendation...I will look into performance friction and carbotech...my main issue has been finding a reputable slotted rotor at a reasonable price that fits the stock IS350 caliper...almost too many options on pads...
GSteg, funny you mention the ducting, as that's the first thing I was planning on checking out when I get back from NY...curious if anyone has had some success with this...
Here is what I plan to do with the brakes...keep the stock calipers, but change the pads, rotors, rubber lines, and fluid...
The IS will not see a ton of track time, but I will throw it around a bit until I get a dedicated track car...so that is the reasoning behind not springing for a BBK...
The track event coming up is at Roebling Road, and those of you who know this track understand why I am a bit concerned with brake fade with the stock brakes...on the main straight, we were hitting 140mph (in the AMG CLK55) before going hard on the brakes into turn 1...I know I might not be getting up to that speed, and the Merc never experienced brake fade, but it has massive BBKs both front and back...I would rather be safe than sorry
I was advised about Hawk pads already, but they don't make pads for the IS350, EBC was the next recommendation...I will look into performance friction and carbotech...my main issue has been finding a reputable slotted rotor at a reasonable price that fits the stock IS350 caliper...almost too many options on pads...
GSteg, funny you mention the ducting, as that's the first thing I was planning on checking out when I get back from NY...curious if anyone has had some success with this...
01-19-11, 09:11 AM
#23
Pole Position
Not to hi-jack this thread but wanted to share my experience.
I just installed EBC's "Redstuff" pads, front and rear, including new rotors all around over the New Year's weekend for my GS350. While I am still in the break in period (maybe 150 miles driven since the change), thus far I am extremely pleased with the pad's performance, as well as being disappointed at the same time. Braking performance compared to OEM, without a doubt is far superior. These pads will stop this car REAL QUICK. I find myself stopping much shorter than ever before. My wife thinks the pads are a bit too grabby, but feels much more safe than before knowing she will be able to get the car stopped in a hurry if needed. Also, ABSOLUTELY ZERO noise (unlike the OP's experience).
Where I am somewhat disappointed is with the amount of brake dust I am seeing. So much so as they can be compared to the original OEM pads that came on my car before they were replaced to the less dust pads under Lexus' TSB. I am hoping that once the pads/rotors are completely broken in, the brake dust will be minimized.
I do realize that there are trade-offs when it comes to performance brake pads - a compromise of performance v. dust v. noise. I will tolerate the dust for MUCH MUCH BETTER braking performance and ZERO noise.
I would highly recommend these pads to any one. When my Tahoe needs new brake pads, I will be changing them to EBC's "Yellowstuff" truck pads.
I just installed EBC's "Redstuff" pads, front and rear, including new rotors all around over the New Year's weekend for my GS350. While I am still in the break in period (maybe 150 miles driven since the change), thus far I am extremely pleased with the pad's performance, as well as being disappointed at the same time. Braking performance compared to OEM, without a doubt is far superior. These pads will stop this car REAL QUICK. I find myself stopping much shorter than ever before. My wife thinks the pads are a bit too grabby, but feels much more safe than before knowing she will be able to get the car stopped in a hurry if needed. Also, ABSOLUTELY ZERO noise (unlike the OP's experience).
Where I am somewhat disappointed is with the amount of brake dust I am seeing. So much so as they can be compared to the original OEM pads that came on my car before they were replaced to the less dust pads under Lexus' TSB. I am hoping that once the pads/rotors are completely broken in, the brake dust will be minimized.
I do realize that there are trade-offs when it comes to performance brake pads - a compromise of performance v. dust v. noise. I will tolerate the dust for MUCH MUCH BETTER braking performance and ZERO noise.
I would highly recommend these pads to any one. When my Tahoe needs new brake pads, I will be changing them to EBC's "Yellowstuff" truck pads.
Still loving these pads and I am very happy I purchased them. Braking performance, still as good as previously reported. Noise?? What noise?? NO noise whatsoever - hot or cold. What has improved significantly is the amount of brake dust, or now, lack thereof. It has been more than a week since I last washed the wheels off and all I see is more road dirt/grime on the wheels than dust. I attribute the high initial dust to the "brake-in" coating EBC's uses on the pads to help in the bedding process with the new rotors I used.
I would highly recommend these pads to any one.
01-19-11, 11:03 AM
#24
Pole Position
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Sorry for the delayed reply guys...flew up to NYC today, not the best weather for travel this morning...
Here is what I plan to do with the brakes...keep the stock calipers, but change the pads, rotors, rubber lines, and fluid...
The IS will not see a ton of track time, but I will throw it around a bit until I get a dedicated track car...so that is the reasoning behind not springing for a BBK...
The track event coming up is at Roebling Road, and those of you who know this track understand why I am a bit concerned with brake fade with the stock brakes...on the main straight, we were hitting 140mph (in the AMG CLK55) before going hard on the brakes into turn 1...I know I might not be getting up to that speed, and the Merc never experienced brake fade, but it has massive BBKs both front and back...I would rather be safe than sorry
I was advised about Hawk pads already, but they don't make pads for the IS350, EBC was the next recommendation...I will look into performance friction and carbotech...my main issue has been finding a reputable slotted rotor at a reasonable price that fits the stock IS350 caliper...almost too many options on pads...
GSteg, funny you mention the ducting, as that's the first thing I was planning on checking out when I get back from NY...curious if anyone has had some success with this...
Here is what I plan to do with the brakes...keep the stock calipers, but change the pads, rotors, rubber lines, and fluid...
The IS will not see a ton of track time, but I will throw it around a bit until I get a dedicated track car...so that is the reasoning behind not springing for a BBK...
The track event coming up is at Roebling Road, and those of you who know this track understand why I am a bit concerned with brake fade with the stock brakes...on the main straight, we were hitting 140mph (in the AMG CLK55) before going hard on the brakes into turn 1...I know I might not be getting up to that speed, and the Merc never experienced brake fade, but it has massive BBKs both front and back...I would rather be safe than sorry
I was advised about Hawk pads already, but they don't make pads for the IS350, EBC was the next recommendation...I will look into performance friction and carbotech...my main issue has been finding a reputable slotted rotor at a reasonable price that fits the stock IS350 caliper...almost too many options on pads...
GSteg, funny you mention the ducting, as that's the first thing I was planning on checking out when I get back from NY...curious if anyone has had some success with this...
On Fontana the front straight I only got up to 120mph-125mph depending
(Getting past at 120ish by the modded Z)
on my drive out of the last turn(my friends Z06 was about 175mph) entering turn 1 just letting off with street tires so around 100-105ish through turn 1 them back on it to about 115-120 to a hard left 90 degree turn, back down to 35mph-40mph I was heavy on the brake with just slotted rotors & EBC reds. My brakes were fine all day. Chuckwalla fastest speed was 105 but way more turns tighter, & after about 25 minutes my brakes were cooked i had to stop to let cool.
Now would better brakes for those conditions help, Yes but for the amount of track time i did the slotted rotors were fine. You will be just fine with a set of slotted rotors & pads like EBC reds. Thats was the set up i used & it work out great for me, very happy. I stopped every time.
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