NitroShredder

Hey guys, I'm new. I am in the market for a new sport sedan. Let's just say my current ride is from Germany and I am looking at the GS430 and also the 540iA. The Bimmer is basically out of the running since the wife said so (bad prior experience with reliability and dealer stuff). Anyways.. I digress.

I am new to this Lexus market and what not and am preparing to make an informed decision. I would appreciate as much feedback as possible.

FYI: I am looking at getting the 2002 GS430 with 17's, ML/NAV, rear spoiler,wood/leather steering, heated front seats.

* I have driven my 528i for about 3 years now (bought new) and enjoy it. I have given the 430 a QUICK drive.. and tomorrow I hope to have an "extended" test drive with the dealer/salesguy. I have noticed it feeling "isolated" from the road. Does this affect it's ability or the drivers ability to make the car grip in high speed turns? I occassionally follow a friend thru the hill country in his 911 at insane speeds.. I can't keep up.. but taking turns at 100+ MPH rocks. fun fun fun. =)

* I have heard of L-Tuned and asked my dealer today about it. He didn't have facts/figures on the Ltuned stuff for the 430. What is available for the car, and approx costs? I do NOT want body kits. I'd be interested in improved handling mainly. Or do the 17's pretty much handle pretty well.

* what is the deal with the L Tuned ECU? What is it and what does it do?

* Does L Tuned do any engine software or tranny software updates/mods too?

Again, like I said above.. I am probably going to get the 430 in a few weeks.. just trying to make sure I have everything covered.

Thanks everyone.
Pete

PS: Anyone know where I can find some "alloy" 17 wheels? I do NOT like the chrome ones... the same style in alloy is my hot ticket. But the dealer says the black/black combo is 99% chrome. =(

*

rominl

iTrader: (4)

welcome to the forum man, if you get your gs430 you will defintley learn tons of stuff here. anyway, here's my answers

1) very nice choice on the gs / options. you are pretty much getting all the options and it can't get any better. you will love it. weird about the wheels though, you sure they mostly come in chrome 17? i usually see silver here

2) yes, you are feeling it the right way, the handling of the stock gs430 is really bad, especially compred to a bimmer. bimmer is firm and tight handling, but the stock gs430 is geared more towards comfort. therefore the suspensions are really loose and soft. true that you don't feel bumpy, but then you don't feel the road at all

3) yes you have quite a few options actually. l-tuned springs and shocks is a good replacement of the stock ones. it will give your car a 1" drop and it doesn't give you a hard ride at all. however, if you want the perfect solution, i would say get coilover. get the tein flex if you want something close to the stock comfort. i have the HA, which is stiffer, but now my car handles like a dream. i wasn't even able to make a right turn at 25mph, but now with JUST the HA, i can make the same turn at 40mph, so you can imagine the gain.

4) besides changing the springs / shocks, you can also get the stb or sways to help handling, they both go good jobs.

5) the 17" wheels will handle a bit better than the 16" on the gs300, but it probably won't fit your needs. you will still need to get other stuff. for springs, i think l-tuned, eibach, and h&r are the most common. for shocks, l-tuned, bileston. for coilover, i would say tein. for sways, only choices are trd and intrax. for stb, trd, tom's, and ugo. there are also braces for underbody, but those are extra after you get the sways and stuff first imho.

6) the stock steering wheel is very loose. when you are on freeway you car is bumpy and your steering wheel flies all ove the place and you don't know where you are going. the new ecu will fix this problem by tightening up the steering wheel. it's a nice cheap mod, and a must if you want good handling, specially when you are used to the tight steering wheel on the bimmers.

7) as far as i know, l-tuned doesn't have anything about engine or tranny. trd has torque converter and lsd stuff, and other companies have stuff like intake. l-tuned does have exhuast for the gs though

hope this helps

mooretorque

romini did a good job of running down the list but let me add a few things as far as handling.

For bang for the buck improvement, you probably can't beat L-Tuned springs/shocks. About $670 if bought thru dealer, about $580 thru Steve Ganz at Carson Toyota (this guy and this dealership are an absolute godsend for Lexus, L-Tuned, TRD and TOMS equipment), with installation and 4 wheel alignment about $4-600, depending on dealer. I'm less familiar with cost of the various coilovers. Biggest advantage is adjustability with more available drop. The 1.25" with L-Tuned is enough for me, but I'm an old guy with the traditional wife and two kids.

Sways are a few hundred more (TRD currently backordered forever), minimal installation. Various upper, lower, front and/or rear chassis bracing goes from simple to fairly complex, with attendant variation in cost and less perceptible improvements in handling than sways.

As far as wheels, your dealer ought to be willing to swap out the chromes and charge you less. Alternatively, you could sell 'em and have extra cash towards, say, a staggered 18" set. Multiple members here have gone that route.

L-Tuned ECU will not produce a tremendous difference in steering feel. Lexus changed the part with the introduction of the GS430 and your dealer will tell you that the 430 HAS the L-Tuned ECU (same part #), the consensus is that there is still some difference in the software and that slight improvements are still seen. With a GS400, the improvement is much greater (moot point for you).

L-Tuned: this is a subdivision, for lack of a better term, of TRD (Toyota Racing Development) strictly offering Lexus parts. Currently offers springs/shocks, steering ECU, exhaust, body kit and several 18" wheel choices. Since it IS part of TRD, it would be relatively easy for Toyota/Lexus to expand the offerings to include torque converters, limited slip diffs, superchargers, etc. Some of those bits, such as LSD and TC, will fit Lexus anyway. L-Tuned offers factory warranty and, if dealer installed, the installation is also warrantied by Lexus.

Of course, since much of this can be dealer-installed, you could have it done before you even take delivery if you so chose.

Welcome and congratulations!!

NitroShredder

Thanks for the info guys... I'll take it with me to the dealer today and try to get the 430 to lay some rubber ;-)

I also noticed an article in a car mag with a L-Tuned IS300. It was the "Series 2" package on a IS300. The car was like 45k!!

Does the L Tuned stuff come only in "packages" or do you think I can get the dealer to work say the LTUned springs/shocks and ECU into the purchase deal =)

Just curious for those of you with the L Tuned Shocks/springs, how "firm" and harsh is the ride? THink my wife will complain of road noise or thump like she does now? Or is it a small change with "tighter" handling? If it makes the ride "harder" I may forego it altogether.....=(


Thanks
Pete

Shinchan

You don't have to buy into the whole L-tuned package. You can purchase different L-tuned Parts sparately from Steve. Take a look at Carlson Toyota's (Steve) Website for various parts:

http://l-tunedparts.com/

He has every parts that you ever want for your GS. L-Tuned packages comes with expensive L-Tuned Aero stuff. Which was not what I have in mind when modding my GS. I want pure performance mod.
As the car stands right now, I can out handle M5 but not out perform it :-(.
Next year.. will be the TwinTurbo for me.. Outhandle/Out Perform M5.
GOAL.....

If you became a Paid CL member, you can tell Steve that you are a paid CL member.. better discount.
also, join the groupbuy in CL.

mumbles

Hi Pete,
Sinchan beat me to posting Steves info, but just let me add this. You can try to work the L-Tuned parts into the purchase deal, but with the way dealers mess with the numbers, you'd want to double check their figures with the ones from Steve's site so you don't get soaked. Most folks purchase from Steve, and then bring the parts to their dealer for installation.

As far as the harshness of the L-Tuned ride, I've heard almost no one complain about that aspect, but they do rave about the improvement in handling, so you should be safe with your wife. Stock the GS's don't handlethat bad, but the body roll gives the impression that they do. If you are really concerned about your wife, try getting some sway bars first, and then if you are still unable to keep up with the 911, go with the suspension upgrade. If you go the sway bar direction, be prepared for a long wait. The TRD sways have been backordered for some time, and I don't believe the Intrax sways, generally considered trash, are made anymore.

A couple of more things. Our cars are called the Aristo in Japan, which is where lots of the parts come from, and more specifically, the go by the chassis code JZS-161. So, with that tidbit in hand, got to your friendly search engine and have a ball!
Also, for most of the wheels available for our cars, go to:
Permaisuri , and click on 'products'.

mooretorque

Meant to add one more thing this am, but had to get to the gym before fixing the boys' breakfast and going to work.

Dealer ought to be willing to let you keep one for the weekend, which would offer ample opportunity for test drives, with and w/o wifey.

There is essentially no change in ride comfort with L-Tuned compared to stock. Slight increase in impact harshness on short/sharp bumps, otherwise nada. Actually, the car is more comfortable since the floaty/queasy sensation over whoop-de-dos is gone and the car no longer feels as if it's moving (slightly) independently from the suspension. Also, with only 1.25" drop, I've had no scraping problems with driveways and such with the stock body.

Sways WILL increase th ride harshness, so I disagree with mumbles recommended order of suspension change (also, practically speaking, no one knows when we'll next be able to get sway bars from TRD but you can get springs and shocks NOW).

www.L-Tuned.com is the official site. You can get list prices as a .pdf file and can compare with Steve's prices. I do second his concerns regarding giving the dealer additional numbers to potentially play with. Knowledge is power!!

Shinchan

Find out if any CL member locate in your area with the car that setup like what you want.. ask them if they can take you in a ride.... with the car.. so you can get the feel of the car... You never know... some CL member here is nice.. maybe even let you drive in a local back road..

Neo

iTrader: (3)

Welcome to ClubLexus.

The guys have covered basically everything except one last tidbit (unless I missed it). Going to adjustable coilovers will probably give you the most handling increase and flexibility. I have the L-Tuned suspension setup and like it a lot. To me, a little bit of change in ride comfort and noise but much increase stability.

Anyway, here is my contribution. For you, who is getting a brand new Lexus, L-Tuned might be better if you are worried about the warranty. Since L-Tuned is "approved" by Lexus and if you have the dealer install it, the warranty stays intact. Just some food for thought.

Enjoy!

NitroShredder

Guys, all I can say is Thanks and I am overwhelmed and overjoyed at the helpfullness of you all. You guys have been a tremedous resouce to me.. and the pieces are falling together nicely... Here's an update:

I got an "L Tuned" price list and discussed the springs/shocks as part of a "possible" deal if I buy the car. The "list" is about $1100 or so.. but we will work out a "deal" he said. Meanwhile I took the car for a real "test drive."

Turn in: I managed to drive some freeway and some "back roads" although nothing super twisty. I did notice the car's mannerisms which is what I wanted. Essentially I have decided it is this: The GS (at least the 430) lacks the sharp turn in I am used too. Then again the 540 also isn't as sharp as my car either. The GS seemed to take wider turns than I wanted.. even at lower speeds. Maybe I haven't adjusted to the car yet... Or maybe it's the car. I did notice there's a "large" dead spot in the center of the steering travel that contributes to the "numbness" of the handling. I can swivel the wheel left and right a small amount on the freeway and not budge at all. On my way I'd be swerving like a drunk man.So perhaps I have to get used to turning the wheel more.

Road feel: We did some back roads.. and some that weren't so smooth. This gave me a chance to "feel" the road and it was good. I was able to get a feel thru the steering without too much noise/intrusion so "feedback" thru the wheel isn't lacking completely.. problems seem to stem from the numb center response (see above).

Power: Nice!! ALTHOUGH it just occured to me.. I should have set the ECT switch to power.. and left it alone.. DARN!!!! I coulda had more fun.. =)

Interior: My salesman gave me an overview of the various systems in the car and a ML demo and a NAV demo. WOW!! The NAV system is totally incredible. I mean, let's pull up Olive Garden.. CALL THEM and then drive there. All on the touch screen. Baddass! Very cool indeed.

I'm going to lay low from the dealer for a few day and "think it over" and then go down with $$ and get me the car =) Trying to get me a deal. =)

Currently, I am going to get Black Onyx/Black interior, spoiler, chrome 17's, ML/NAV, heated front seats (they throw in cargo mat AND net, and wheel locks). List is 56,500 or so. And I plan to add the L Tuned Springs/shocks to the deal. What do you think is a fair "negiotiated" walk out price on that?

Lastly, for tonight... if you break the rear tires loose and the VSC/TRAC kicks in.. does the car issue a display warning light? I want to say I say a light FLICKER once when I broke them lose coming around a turn =-) but he said unless the '02's do it. HE's never seen anyone "light it up before." =)

Thanks again for all your help

Pete

Future 2002 Lexus GS430, ML/NAV, 17 inch chromies, spoiler, heated front seats, maybe L Tuned Springs/shocks (depends if wife is along for the purchase ;-)

mooretorque

Nitro, very good post!!!

OK, L-Tuned: if that $1100 price is for springs and shocks, installed and realigned, that's quite good, since the parts are about $670 list and 4 wheel alignment is generally $100. So $430 for install is pretty good (my local/only in-state dealer charged me around $600).

Steering: has a slower ratio. Short of changing the entire rack, nothing to be done about that. But subjectively, it will feel better with the L-Tuned springs/shocks.....less body roll doesn't actually increase the yaw rate but does "feel" that way. As far as the dead spot, I like to think of it as being there for the same reason Mercedes has one: sneeze factor, eg, the Merc has it so that if one sneezes will flying up the left lane of the autobahn, the car doesn't twitch/swerve. At least, that's what their engineers maintained.

As far as the L-Tuned steering ECU, I still haven't done it. Your dealer will tell you it's the same part. But two members whose opinions I greatly respect (bitkahuna, RealMarty) did a DIY when RM's 430 was new and did back to back comparisons of the car before and after. Both were convinced that there IS a difference compared to the stock part, despite same part numbers. That post is quite detailed and worth a search back (forgive me for not providing the link).

Power: ECT only changes the shift mapping in the tranny so that you stay in a given gear longer before upshift and downshifts occur with less throttle pressure. Even so, I end up gateshifting pretty frequently as, even in power mode, the drivetrain is relentless in its attempts to maintain fuel economy. And yes, you will get a dashlight indicator if VSC/TRAC intervenes, either way. It does allow a small amount of wheelspin; if you switch it off, you can melt those Bridgestones!!

Pricing: rapidly approaching end of model year. Ought to be able to get the car for $1000 over invoice at most. There is a 2% holdback, so the dealer's gonna make a grand even if he sells at invoice. But I haven't looked up cost numbers but invoice plus $1k should be easily attainable.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

ok, just for reference, i got my tein HA coilover installed for 1100. that's no tax, 1100. so even if i get a 4 wheels alignment that's 1200, still very good pirce

Shinchan

I start mod my car when we purchased our second car, BMW 330i. I could no longer stand the floatness, no sharp turn feel on my Lexus. I search the internet and found my family (CL).hohoho.. My sickness for mod the car started.. all down hill from there...

I start with a goal.. to get better feel/handling like the 330i... soon the goal turn into out handle M5. Next year will be Outperform M5 with TwinTurbo from SRT.

Now coming from a previous 328is owner to a lexus, it took a while to get used to the so called: Luxuary feel (More like American ride Feel). IF you want to get better feel of the road?


couple thing to do:

TRD Strut Bar, TRD Lower Connection Brass, TRD Sway Bar, Tom Rear Strut Bar.

Suspension upgrade: Tein Flex. You should be able to retain some lux feel of the car with the softest setting. Couple CL member should be able to verify that statement. Plus you can adjust the height of the car. That wheel gap is rediculous... sorry guys with L-Tuned.. still to high. With Tein, you could adjust the car to the height you want.

Steering ECU is a must. could easily be install by yourself.

SRT HFI/Race (Cold air intake with Air/Fuel Ratio adjusted)

Now to out handle M5, you need Toms Rear 6 Piece Linkage.

Some light weight 18" wheel SSR GT1.. low profile tire.. will get some flex out of the tire when doing a sharp turn. Now...You are ready to kill.. now, if you to make sure that 540i 6 speed does not come any where close to you.. you need TRD LSD and Torque Converter.... by now your wife are about to shoot you... like mine....

NitroShredder

The PWR ECT is a sort of a "tranny" mode than a motor reponse change mode? So it's akin to a Sport auto shift mode on a bimmer (mine will red line nearly every gear in sport mode if I want it too depending on pedal pressure).

Mooretorque, what do you mean by "gateshifting?" Do you change the gears "manually" with the auto?

Shinchan, how difficult or special equipment is required for the ECU install? If it's easy I'll get it at l-tunedparts.com and do it myself (without the dealer downtime ;-) I just do not want to mess up my car ;-)

Does anyone here have a Cold Air Intake for the GS430? I'm thinking of finding a BMC or K&N filter for the 430 and go from there.

Where can I find INVOICE pricing on the GS AND on the L Tuned parts... I want to get my figures together.

And lastly, how do I become a Club Lexus member and get more info on that.....

Thanks again guys...
Pete

UTGS400

Just a quick correction: L-Tuned offers two different types of 17's and one type of 18's.