rotors
09-27-11, 10:42 AM
#1
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rotors
i have a 06 is350 and i want to change my front rotors to either slotted or drilled or both any suggestions on brands, which would be better or if i should just stick with my stock rotors
thanks
thanks
09-27-11, 10:50 AM
#2
Are you a pretty hard braker? In other words, do you warp rotors quickly?
Here was my setup on my old IS300 and my current IS350. I warp my brakes often (now because everytime they are machined it makes their life span less) because I live in Atlanta and am driving roughly 90mph every where I go in traffic. When hit 115k miles, I bought DRT drill/slotted rotors, Posi Quiet pads (BEST pads!), stainless steel brake lines, and Motul 5.1 brake fluid (best results with DOT4 or DOT5.1..... DO NOT USE DOT5!! Must be 5.1) ... End result?? BEST BRAKES EVER. I am currently waiting for my delivery off all these products:
Here are all the parts you need for your year IS350:
Rotor selection (I'd choose Premium rotors): http://www.drt-sport.com/catalog/5364
Front brake pads: http://www.drt-sport.com/content/200...ake-pads-front
Read brake pads: http://www.drt-sport.com/content/200...rake-pads-rear
SS brake lines (a must!): http://www.lextuners.com/stoptech-le...ke-lines-.html
Brake fluid (you need only 1 but buying 2 would be better): http://www.amazon.com/Motul-Brake-fl.../dp/B0022ZFWMM
Here was my setup on my old IS300 and my current IS350. I warp my brakes often (now because everytime they are machined it makes their life span less) because I live in Atlanta and am driving roughly 90mph every where I go in traffic. When hit 115k miles, I bought DRT drill/slotted rotors, Posi Quiet pads (BEST pads!), stainless steel brake lines, and Motul 5.1 brake fluid (best results with DOT4 or DOT5.1..... DO NOT USE DOT5!! Must be 5.1) ... End result?? BEST BRAKES EVER. I am currently waiting for my delivery off all these products:
Here are all the parts you need for your year IS350:
Rotor selection (I'd choose Premium rotors): http://www.drt-sport.com/catalog/5364
Front brake pads: http://www.drt-sport.com/content/200...ake-pads-front
Read brake pads: http://www.drt-sport.com/content/200...rake-pads-rear
SS brake lines (a must!): http://www.lextuners.com/stoptech-le...ke-lines-.html
Brake fluid (you need only 1 but buying 2 would be better): http://www.amazon.com/Motul-Brake-fl.../dp/B0022ZFWMM
Last edited by dackp143; 09-27-11 at 11:03 AM.
09-27-11, 12:26 PM
#3
First, brakes don't warp. See here:
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml
(bold added by me)
Ok, that out of the way, on a street car there's no benefit whatsoever to slotted rotors other than they look good... in exchange they'll eat your pads about 25% faster than blanks will. On a track slotted is worth this trade because of the deglazing of the pads (and the fact you change pads often on a track car anyway) but unless you're driving like a maniac this isn't a concern on a street car.
Drilled rotors suck in every measurable way. There's no good reason to drill holes in rotors on a car and they are inferior to blank or slotted rotors in any car application except sitting still at a car show. They offer no performance benefit in a car (in fact they are a negative- removing mass from a device meant to be used as a heat sink) and they're prone to developing cracks from heat stress at the holes.
So to the OP- blank rotors are the way to go. OEMs are fine of course, centric blank OEM replacements will do the same job and maybe be a touch cheaper.
Your stock brake lines are already kevlar, so stainless steel will do nothing for you either except look shiny (and require extra inspection if racing)
No reason to use anything other than the OEM pads (low dust ones in the front) for street use.... ditto no reason to change brake fluid. If you are racing that's another story on both counts, but what's best for racing won't be ideal for street use.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml
(bold added by me)
Originally Posted by Carroll Smith
With one qualifier, presuming that the hub and wheel flange are flat and in good condition and that the wheel bolts or hat mounting hardware is in good condition, installed correctly and tightened uniformly and in the correct order to the recommended torque specification, in more than 40 years of professional racing, including the Shelby/Ford GT 40s – one of the most intense brake development program in history - I have never seen a warped brake disc...
...In fact every case of "warped brake disc" that I have investigated, whether on a racing car or a street car, has turned out to be friction pad material transferred unevenly to the surface of the disc. This uneven deposition results in thickness variation (TV) or run-out due to hot spotting that occurred at elevated temperatures.
...In fact every case of "warped brake disc" that I have investigated, whether on a racing car or a street car, has turned out to be friction pad material transferred unevenly to the surface of the disc. This uneven deposition results in thickness variation (TV) or run-out due to hot spotting that occurred at elevated temperatures.
Ok, that out of the way, on a street car there's no benefit whatsoever to slotted rotors other than they look good... in exchange they'll eat your pads about 25% faster than blanks will. On a track slotted is worth this trade because of the deglazing of the pads (and the fact you change pads often on a track car anyway) but unless you're driving like a maniac this isn't a concern on a street car.
Drilled rotors suck in every measurable way. There's no good reason to drill holes in rotors on a car and they are inferior to blank or slotted rotors in any car application except sitting still at a car show. They offer no performance benefit in a car (in fact they are a negative- removing mass from a device meant to be used as a heat sink) and they're prone to developing cracks from heat stress at the holes.
So to the OP- blank rotors are the way to go. OEMs are fine of course, centric blank OEM replacements will do the same job and maybe be a touch cheaper.
Your stock brake lines are already kevlar, so stainless steel will do nothing for you either except look shiny (and require extra inspection if racing)
No reason to use anything other than the OEM pads (low dust ones in the front) for street use.... ditto no reason to change brake fluid. If you are racing that's another story on both counts, but what's best for racing won't be ideal for street use.
09-27-11, 12:46 PM
#6
Except you don't actually get that with those.
Rotors are heat sinks. Removing mass by drilling useless holes doesn't help.
And your braking won't be any "better" anyway because the OEM rotors can already engage ABS... any more braking power beyond that is 100% useless. You won't be overheating your brakes in normal street use so "better cooling" wouldn't be useful even if drilling holes gave it to you.
Now, if tracking the car, then you care... in which case drilled still sucks as the rotors will crack.
There's a reason NASCAR and other pro racing doesn't use drilled rotors. They suck.
(slots are a different story as far as racing, and worth doing- but for the deglazing reason moreso than anything to do with heat- which is best managed with larger rotors- and again worthless in street use)
If you won't believe me, here's a bit from a guy who designs brake systems for a living, and has literally written books on this topic:
http://www.scirocco.org/faq/brakes/p...oorrotors.html
In short- unless you are tracking the car, no brake "upgrade" will do anything for you except cost money, and possibly do one or more of the following:
Look nicer
Change the 'feel" of the system, for better or worse- the car will still stop in exactly the same distance as on the stock brakes though because the brakes don't stop the car, the tires do.
Wear pads out faster (slotted or drilled)
Require rotor replacement sooner (drilled especially)
Rotors are heat sinks. Removing mass by drilling useless holes doesn't help.
And your braking won't be any "better" anyway because the OEM rotors can already engage ABS... any more braking power beyond that is 100% useless. You won't be overheating your brakes in normal street use so "better cooling" wouldn't be useful even if drilling holes gave it to you.
Now, if tracking the car, then you care... in which case drilled still sucks as the rotors will crack.
There's a reason NASCAR and other pro racing doesn't use drilled rotors. They suck.
(slots are a different story as far as racing, and worth doing- but for the deglazing reason moreso than anything to do with heat- which is best managed with larger rotors- and again worthless in street use)
If you won't believe me, here's a bit from a guy who designs brake systems for a living, and has literally written books on this topic:
http://www.scirocco.org/faq/brakes/p...oorrotors.html
Originally Posted by James Walker Jr, on drilled rotors
Contrary to popular belief, they don't lower temperatures. (In fact, by removing weight from the rotor, they can actually cause temperatures to increase a little.) These holes create stress risers that allow the rotor to crack sooner, and make a mess of brake pads--sort of like a cheese grater rubbing against them at every stop.
Originally Posted by James Walker Jr, on slotted
Slotting rotors, on the other hand, might be a consideration if your sanctioning body allows for it. Cutting thin slots across the face of the rotor can actually help to clean the face of the brake pads over time, helping to reduce the glazing often found during high-speed use which can lower the coefficient of friction.
In short- unless you are tracking the car, no brake "upgrade" will do anything for you except cost money, and possibly do one or more of the following:
Look nicer
Change the 'feel" of the system, for better or worse- the car will still stop in exactly the same distance as on the stock brakes though because the brakes don't stop the car, the tires do.
Wear pads out faster (slotted or drilled)
Require rotor replacement sooner (drilled especially)
Last edited by Kurtz; 09-27-11 at 12:58 PM.
09-27-11, 12:56 PM
#7
oh god, here we go again...haha
Stop arguing with Kurtz. Apply common sense and only buy drilled/slotted rotors for looks.
This is the simplest example I can think of to prove Kurtz's point yet again:
Get on a bicycle and stick your foot in the rear tire to lock it up. You're going to skid and stop in 30 feet. Now put on a 8" top of the line disc brake with ceramic pads and lock up the rear tire. You're going to skid and stop in 30 feet.
It doesn't matter what you do to lock up the wheel, they both can do it and they'll both stop in the same distance. The only difference is that you spent either $25 on a sneaker or $400 on a disc brake.
Stock brakes can engage ABS, so will a stock setup with drilled/slotted/ceramic/whatever, as will a BBK,
If you want to stop faster, get better tires.
Stop arguing with Kurtz. Apply common sense and only buy drilled/slotted rotors for looks.
This is the simplest example I can think of to prove Kurtz's point yet again:
Get on a bicycle and stick your foot in the rear tire to lock it up. You're going to skid and stop in 30 feet. Now put on a 8" top of the line disc brake with ceramic pads and lock up the rear tire. You're going to skid and stop in 30 feet.
It doesn't matter what you do to lock up the wheel, they both can do it and they'll both stop in the same distance. The only difference is that you spent either $25 on a sneaker or $400 on a disc brake.
Stock brakes can engage ABS, so will a stock setup with drilled/slotted/ceramic/whatever, as will a BBK,
If you want to stop faster, get better tires.
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09-27-11, 01:14 PM
#9
Drilled = Will crack. Slotted = Will eat your pads
I've had personal experience with all 3 in the past, blanks are the best.
Drilled rotors will begin to crack around the holes over time. It's usually because drilled rotors are just blanks that are drilled. They aren't cast with the holes so they aren't designed to have the drill holes. I don't need to explain why cracks all over your rotors is a bad thing. I personally love the look of slotted brakes, but after learning the hard way that the pads need changing more often...i'll stick with blanks. You honestly will not feel the difference if you switch to slotted/drilled/combo rotors.
OEM blank rotors + OEM low dust pads = Your set. Assuming your not tracking the car.
I've had personal experience with all 3 in the past, blanks are the best.
Drilled rotors will begin to crack around the holes over time. It's usually because drilled rotors are just blanks that are drilled. They aren't cast with the holes so they aren't designed to have the drill holes. I don't need to explain why cracks all over your rotors is a bad thing. I personally love the look of slotted brakes, but after learning the hard way that the pads need changing more often...i'll stick with blanks. You honestly will not feel the difference if you switch to slotted/drilled/combo rotors.
OEM blank rotors + OEM low dust pads = Your set. Assuming your not tracking the car.
Muahahahahah!!
09-27-11, 01:38 PM
#11
First, brakes don't warp. See here:
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml
(bold added by me)
Ok, that out of the way, on a street car there's no benefit whatsoever to slotted rotors other than they look good... in exchange they'll eat your pads about 25% faster than blanks will. On a track slotted is worth this trade because of the deglazing of the pads (and the fact you change pads often on a track car anyway) but unless you're driving like a maniac this isn't a concern on a street car.
Drilled rotors suck in every measurable way. There's no good reason to drill holes in rotors on a car and they are inferior to blank or slotted rotors in any car application except sitting still at a car show. They offer no performance benefit in a car (in fact they are a negative- removing mass from a device meant to be used as a heat sink) and they're prone to developing cracks from heat stress at the holes.
So to the OP- blank rotors are the way to go. OEMs are fine of course, centric blank OEM replacements will do the same job and maybe be a touch cheaper.
Your stock brake lines are already kevlar, so stainless steel will do nothing for you either except look shiny (and require extra inspection if racing)
No reason to use anything other than the OEM pads (low dust ones in the front) for street use.... ditto no reason to change brake fluid. If you are racing that's another story on both counts, but what's best for racing won't be ideal for street use.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml
(bold added by me)
Ok, that out of the way, on a street car there's no benefit whatsoever to slotted rotors other than they look good... in exchange they'll eat your pads about 25% faster than blanks will. On a track slotted is worth this trade because of the deglazing of the pads (and the fact you change pads often on a track car anyway) but unless you're driving like a maniac this isn't a concern on a street car.
Drilled rotors suck in every measurable way. There's no good reason to drill holes in rotors on a car and they are inferior to blank or slotted rotors in any car application except sitting still at a car show. They offer no performance benefit in a car (in fact they are a negative- removing mass from a device meant to be used as a heat sink) and they're prone to developing cracks from heat stress at the holes.
So to the OP- blank rotors are the way to go. OEMs are fine of course, centric blank OEM replacements will do the same job and maybe be a touch cheaper.
Your stock brake lines are already kevlar, so stainless steel will do nothing for you either except look shiny (and require extra inspection if racing)
No reason to use anything other than the OEM pads (low dust ones in the front) for street use.... ditto no reason to change brake fluid. If you are racing that's another story on both counts, but what's best for racing won't be ideal for street use.
As for drill/slotted cracking, in 8 years of driving Lexus's with this specific brand I haven't experienced it but I guess maybe I'm just lucky? I definitely like the look of drilled rotors especially Brembo's and Stop-Techs. I will continue to use this combo because unlike the rest of you, I feel a difference in my braking.
As for pads, LOVE Posi Quiets. I don't have to deal with that cheap squeal the Lexus OEM BS pads give. YUCK
Last edited by dackp143; 09-27-11 at 01:45 PM.
09-27-11, 08:04 PM
#13
I'll re-post this link for reading as well...
http://home.wavecable.com/~vtucker/A4/rotors.pdf
Has some worthwhile info
V
http://home.wavecable.com/~vtucker/A4/rotors.pdf
Has some worthwhile info
V
09-27-11, 09:16 PM
#14
So why would Porsche charge upwards of $8,000 for carbon ceramic brakes that are "drilled?" Why don't they make them in blanks? Are carbon ceramic rotors more durable and crack resistant?
I'm not trying to be a smart a$$ btw, just trying to understand some physics/engineering.
Thanks in advance.
I'm not trying to be a smart a$$ btw, just trying to understand some physics/engineering.
Thanks in advance.
09-27-11, 11:24 PM
#15
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
Carbon brakes are in their own world. They work very differently from conventional cast iron rotors with ceramic or metallic brake pads.
Some interesting discussion in the paper submitted for the class. Some of it has been proved dead wrong, so I wouldn't take it at face value without further investigation. I'll also take James Walker's recommendations over any paper a student wrote for a class. He's usually the one teaching the class at the highest levels.
Some interesting discussion in the paper submitted for the class. Some of it has been proved dead wrong, so I wouldn't take it at face value without further investigation. I'll also take James Walker's recommendations over any paper a student wrote for a class. He's usually the one teaching the class at the highest levels.