Chairmnofthbord

i dont have a press i have access to a press, but i didnt need them on mine, i siply pounded out therubber and the sleeve, the 1st one was tough, after that i got the hang of it.

PS i make it sound simple, but it is a pain

UZZ32

Concerns about the life of the new replacement rubber bush are speculation only - we will have to wait and see.

Many people feel ripped when their poly bushes with special grease squeak and transmit every little bump in the road.
The bush moves with the control arm during the alignment - I don't know if lowering the car excessively will reduce the life of the bush or how critical the shock control alignment is for those few degrees.

The bushes are not made in someone's backyard - they are professionally manufactured and have impressed everyone who has seen them. They are the only bush stocked and sold by Toyota that I know of. All Andrew did was put up the cash to get them designed and the dies made.

I would rather have the superior ride of the rubber bush from day One - even if they only last as long as the originals.
I would not drive my car for four years with harsh ride and squeaks waiting for some perceived extra life from a "long life" bush. I don't want a cheap compromise - I want my Lexus to ride, steer and handle like a new one - nothing less.

pcmw

Peter,

I agree 100% with what you are saying. However, I did not use urethane bushings. Daizen bushing are a softer, no squeak alternative. They are stiffer but only to an elevated level of performance, neither annoying or rough. The mere fact that dismantling the lower arm more than once or twice in 10 years will in all likelihood ruin the ball joint/ball joint boot, I would prefer to either buy NEW arms from the factory, or use something that corrects the issue instead of just repeats the issue.

Truly, this comes down to a question of design and integrity. In my mind, the design needs to handle larger wheels and lower suspensions without the tramlining that is inherent in the factory rubber setup. It should last longer than stock setup. Finally the car should be able to be aligned correctly. That is all.

Thanks again Peter.

MW

SCV8

I made the parts on a lathe,since I've yet to see a soft poly bush last,and this material has already been proven on other vehicles.

I just hated the tramlining that the rubber parts allowed anyways,and now I can dial in just a very small amount of toe-in with no bad effects,car is now faster in a straight line,awsome steering feedback going into corners as well,better braking...
The difference in the ride is about the same as when I went to 17" wheels from the stock setup.

It's a Teflon impregnated UHMW,machined to a .003 interference to the outer sleeve,and a .001 on the inner.

pcmw

SCV8,

Does it squeak? I am assuming you did not use steel sleeves. Did you flange the outer edges to buffer the control arm from the sub-frame? Do you have any pics?

I am guessing you used a computer controlled lathe to get to .001 tolerance?

MW

SCV8

Nope,no squeaks;material is more bearing-like,less like a rubber/elastomer,so it's not grabby,sticky when under pressure.
The steel portion from the original bushing was removed,as the diameter varied greatly(.020) from having been installed under pressure,or manufacturing itself,and since the situation has changed from that of a bushing,and gone to a bearing,it just had to go.
Parts are single flange type common bushings made on an old manual lathe.Tolerances should lean towards interference,and not clearance,and can vary .005,but beware to avoid maximun interference with these numbers,will be difficult to assemble.You should have one portion(inside/outside) or the other pretty close.
The sleeves should be as smooth as posible too.
The flanges are both to the rear of the car,as installed.
There are some companies that make small orders of these parts on the web if you too feel the need,know your numbers;search "bushings",or "bearings" + "plastic".

UZZ32

Rubber bushes do not "allow" tramlining - unless they are stuffed.
Replacing stuffed bushes with new rubber bushes also results in improved steering etc - but I couldn't say they make the car "faster in a straight line".
Once new bushes are installed, regardless of material, the car will hold any alignment dialled in.
I have zero tramlining with the new rubber bushes and Toyota spec factory wheel alignment with 18 inch wheels, 38 mm offset and Kuhmo Ecsta 712's.

pcmw

Peter,

Sorry, I have another question that just doesn't add up. If the stocks wear out fairly quickly... The new bushings you have are made to the same rubber specs... However, I did not see the OEM second steel sleeves inside the rubber replacements. Doesn't that steel support make them stronger? Also, is your car lowered at all? I think I remember you writing that your car had the TEMS.

Thanks again.

Sorry to ask you all these questions, I wish I had a set to test and refer to, but I am not crazy about wiring cash literally around the world.

MW

UZZ32

It would appear by inspecting the old bushes that the shock control slots, the very feature that gives that beautiful new Lexus car feel, is the weak point.
Rubber "dries out", cracks and fails. This feature of rubber is not so much a function of new rubber rebound or stiffness, but a chemical composition one.
So you can have two rubbers that feel the same, one can last longer than the other.
Happens on tyres for example. Cheap retreads or recaps are often made from a lower grade rubber - doesn't last.
Rubber ain't rubber.

I don't know how the rubber in my 1991 OEM bushes compares with the new replacements on offer. I don't know if it would last longer and resist degradation better or worse than the originals - I guess it may take upwards of 80 000 km to find out for sure. For me the question was do I buy a new control arm from Toyota, or fit these bushes.

I don't believe the ball joint suffers at all if removed from the upright correctly- this is not an issue for me at all - I haven't heard of one failing yet.

Rubber components in cars don't last forever - we all know about tyres and belts - rubber bushes in all sorts of cars are a common service item. I don't expect them to last the life of the car - I expect to service them in all my cars. I was prepared to replace the lower control arm every 80 000 km if that's what it took to keep my car driving like a new Lexus.

I don't know anyone who has kept a Lexus SC long enough to have to replace the bushes twice - most people move on to another car long before this happens.

So at worst I expect the bushes to last as long as the originals in my car.

My car is a UZZ32 - it was never exported to the US, 873 were made in total for the local Japan market. It isn't the more common airbag UZZ31 or TEMS model. The export model you drive is a UZZ30.
My car has no springs.
My car has no swaybars.
My car has no shock absorbers.
It has Active Four Wheel Steering (A-4WS), Active Hydropneumatic Suspension (A-SUS), ABS and TRC.

I pay the penalty in weight though - an extra 300 pounds in weight.

When you get real bored you can read the 18 pages or so all about it here:
http://members.optushome.com.au/acti...Z32/uzz32.html

My car is lowered - I simply twirl a small rod and the car is adjusted. A great advantage. My before and after height is on this page:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/pgscott/lower/Lower.html

I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the OEM steel sleeve. After inspecting the bushes the suspension shop removed from my control arms with an air chisel, they look exactly the same as the new ones that went in (except for the knurled ends - mine were an early model - I think they are also available in a 10 % harder compound).

I have attached a picture of the new bushes before going in - I have pictures of the old bushes and they have the same inner and outer steel sleeves - is that what you mean?

Buying stuff unseen from overseas and wiring money to someone you don't know is strange I know. I bought my Lexus SC400 from Japan this way - I'll I had was a couple of photos, a description and a phone call - then I had to wire the money and wait a month for the ship to bring the car over - so I know how you feel about buying the bushes - it's not like a regular shop where you can hold them beforehand etc.

There is a thread on the ALSC about peoples experience with the bushes so far - but they are all locals.
http://www.alsc.aus.as/messages/1/2388.html?1041804107

You could also give him a ring - that could help you make a judgement.

pcmw

Peter,

Maybe US spec cars with normal suspensions have different setups from your JDM spec car. However, the bushings that I have worked on US SC's have a second metal sleeve inside the bushing. This is Xavier's pic from his install. You can see the second metal reinforcements.

Link

Hope that helps. I just think that with the same rubber flexibility in that bushing is a major weakness as they all seem to tear from the torque or jarring. They all seem to tear along the weaker areas from the shock control slots.

MW

Hermosa

Hey,

On these Aussie bushings how did you remove the stock inner metal sleeve? PCMW and I just torched the rubber part out and left the original thin outer sleeve intact.

- Mike

pcmw

Hermosa,

That is funny. You make it sound like we lit a camp fire, roasted marshmellows from the control arm, and sang Kum-Bah-Yah!!

I perfected this technique and unfortunately your car was the guinea pig Hermosa..... I know that you and I will remember that horrendous ordeal for a while.

MW

Hermosa

Hehe, it was a learning experience that all of us here on the board derived benefit from

It all worked out okay in the end. I was wondering, however, how easy it is to replace the ball joint on the lower control arm or at least reseal it nice. Since I mine are a bit leaky.
- Mike

pcmw

Hermosa,

Unfortunately everyone is busy making the bushings and not the balljoint/balljoint boots.

I really hope someone catches on to this and finds a way to replace these.

MW

Hermosa

As far as I know the only way is to buy a new joint and press it on but I do not have the tools or the part. I am wondering on the long term effects on reliability of having these joints a little less lubricated over time. I might periodically use a very thin needle sort of instrumnet and inject some more grease until I find a solution.