View Poll Results: Need a camber kit for your GS?
Yes, I really need one!!
351
81.82%
No, I dont plan on lowering my car.
13
3.03%
No, I like eating the inside of my tires in 15K - 20K miles.
26
6.06%
What's a camber kit?
39
9.09%
Voters: 429. You may not vote on this poll
Need a Camber Kit for your GS?
03-17-07, 02:40 PM
#151
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GSteg - I guess what I'm looking for is specifics of what to ask so I find the appropriate shop. What are those high end shops doing or looking at that enable them to know what the camber, castor, toe settings should be since each dropped GS is different? And what's the "old method way of aligning"?
03-18-07, 02:32 AM
#152
There are so many factors in determining how much the effect of camber will affect your tire wear. For example, someone with 18" rims or smaller and 40 series or higher profile tires will not be greatly affected by camber effects, because the sidewall will compensate, by compressing on the inner sidewall.
This is where comments by those claiming "no wear issues with their alignment" while having the aforementioned tire sizes can be mis-leading. They may not experience wear issues even with out of spec camber settings, because their tire size "hides" the effect.
On the other hand, someone with 20" rims and very low profile 30 series tires will be the most sensitive to camber, because the sidewall is so low and hard, the tire will ride on the inner edge of the tread much easier and will experience inner tread wear much faster.
To put it simply: the lower the car, the larger the wheel diameter and the lower the tire profile, then the more that a stock alignment setting will not work out as well.
Last edited by RMMGS4; 03-19-07 at 09:29 PM.
03-18-07, 02:48 AM
#153
Don't tell them anything . . . don't walk away . . . just run ! ! !
Like I said, finding a shop may not be easy, depending on the region you live. Just as you see posts of people having difficulty finding reputable and experienced shops to tune their FI modded motors, finding a knowledgable alignment shop can be equally as difficult.
And just as with a tech attempting to tune a motor, some techs may have better success than others to get your alignment just right. Lastly, there is always something called luck, of which I'm sure some members alignments have been so blessed.
I don't want to make alignments sound like rocket science, because in the end, there are a lot of technically knowledgable alignment techs out there, but I would say any shop that will only support aligning your lowered car to factory spec, is probably not the right place, since it suggests that they only have operators who just do what the machine tells them to, versus TRUE technicians who tell the machine what to do.
One suggestion is if you have a local SCCA club that holds Autocross events in your area, they might have participants that can recommend a local shop where they get their alignments done. Then again I should caution that you do not want an alignment set up for autocross, but a shop that has the expertise to perform a Street set up with "good" tire wear characteristics.
Last edited by RMMGS4; 03-19-07 at 09:39 PM.
03-18-07, 03:05 AM
#154
The shop I go to in NorCal has years of experience with tuning, custom suspensions, race cars, exotics, custom mobile homes, you name it. Like I said before, we have had many CL members over to their shop over the past 6 years, so they have a good idea of what settings to start with, then as a follow up, after the alignment is performed, they will test drive the car and if it doesn't behave to their satisfaction they will put the car back up on the rack and tweek the settings again. This last step is one of the reasons why I consider this shop a "Tuner" for suspensions.
Last edited by RMMGS4; 03-19-07 at 09:40 PM.
03-19-07, 07:32 PM
#155
Lexus Test Driver
Todd,
I'm glad you stepped up once more to point out that camber DOES NOT have to be the cause of this tire wear problem. (Applicable to cars lowered down to roughly a zero finger gap. Slammed with bags does not count in this statement)
In NorCal, some veteran CL members and myself have worked very closely with a local high end alignment shop to ELIMINATE front inner tire wear problems on dropped GS's.
I can tell you that from working with this shop for over 4 years, I have studied their alignment specs and the tire wear results on local members cars in order to evaluate and try to understand this issue.
Todd, your past recommendations as well were factored into my following conclusions:
1. Common sense says that if your car is lowered, different sways, bushings, tire/wheel sizes, wheel offsets, etc. than that means "you" have a modified suspension = factory alignment specs are NOT ideal.
When an engine is modified, especially with FI, no one thinks twice about having the engine TUNED for optimum performance. So when it comes to modified suspensions, it makes sense to have an alignment specialist TUNE your alignment settings. Anyone who follows auto racing knows that race teams spend many hours and test laps to TUNE their suspension for optimum performance, because every car they have and track they race is different. You can't just set it and forget it.
2. On another point, unless worn bushings, ball joints, poor tire balance, etc. are checked and verified as NON-issues, your problems will not go away with a simple alignment.
I would say well over 50% of those with issues have not ruled out these other items before making the conclusion that they have a camber problem.
3. Achieving factory spec on camber is not possible beyond a certain drop. If that is the case, the toe must be adjusted to compensate for the increased inner wear.
4. Even if you can obtain factory spec it does not mean you have the ideal alignment for proper tire wear. (see item #1)
5. Knowing how much toe to increase is not a constant value. There are many factors in determining what the toe angle should be.
6. Some of these factors are: drop, camber, castor, tire/wheel size, wheel offset, driver weight, stereo equipment weight, to name a few.
7. You cannot just "copy" someones toe settings and assume you are good if your drop, tire size, etc. are not all the same. On top of that, all cars vary slightly from one another in specification, so there's no easy way to tell what other items may factor in to your ideal toe setting and whether or not it will work on another car if they copy it.
We are very fortunate in NorCal to have a specialized alignment shop that specializes in custom suspensions, including race cars and also has a successful racing experience running and TUNING their own cars.
I believe finding a shop that Knows modded Lexus and Knows how to TUNE a suspension is probably going to be a challenge for a lot of members. The same case holds true when searching for a "Reputable" tuner for our modded engines right?
I hope this sheds a bit more light on this commonly mis-understood subject.
Good Luck to all in finding the RIGHT alignment shop in your area.
I'm glad you stepped up once more to point out that camber DOES NOT have to be the cause of this tire wear problem. (Applicable to cars lowered down to roughly a zero finger gap. Slammed with bags does not count in this statement)
In NorCal, some veteran CL members and myself have worked very closely with a local high end alignment shop to ELIMINATE front inner tire wear problems on dropped GS's.
I can tell you that from working with this shop for over 4 years, I have studied their alignment specs and the tire wear results on local members cars in order to evaluate and try to understand this issue.
Todd, your past recommendations as well were factored into my following conclusions:
1. Common sense says that if your car is lowered, different sways, bushings, tire/wheel sizes, wheel offsets, etc. than that means "you" have a modified suspension = factory alignment specs are NOT ideal.
When an engine is modified, especially with FI, no one thinks twice about having the engine TUNED for optimum performance. So when it comes to modified suspensions, it makes sense to have an alignment specialist TUNE your alignment settings. Anyone who follows auto racing knows that race teams spend many hours and test laps to TUNE their suspension for optimum performance, because every car they have and track they race is different. You can't just set it and forget it.
2. On another point, unless worn bushings, ball joints, poor tire balance, etc. are checked and verified as NON-issues, your problems will not go away with a simple alignment.
I would say well over 50% of those with issues have not ruled out these other items before making the conclusion that they have a camber problem.
3. Achieving factory spec on camber is not possible beyond a certain drop. If that is the case, the toe must be adjusted to compensate for the increased inner wear.
4. Even if you can obtain factory spec it does not mean you have the ideal alignment for proper tire wear. (see item #1)
5. Knowing how much toe to increase is not a constant value. There are many factors in determining what the toe angle should be.
6. Some of these factors are: drop, camber, castor, tire/wheel size, wheel offset, driver weight, stereo equipment weight, to name a few.
7. You cannot just "copy" someones toe settings and assume you are good if your drop, tire size, etc. are not all the same. On top of that, all cars vary slightly from one another in specification, so there's no easy way to tell what other items may factor in to your ideal toe setting and whether or not it will work on another car if they copy it.
We are very fortunate in NorCal to have a specialized alignment shop that specializes in custom suspensions, including race cars and also has a successful racing experience running and TUNING their own cars.
I believe finding a shop that Knows modded Lexus and Knows how to TUNE a suspension is probably going to be a challenge for a lot of members. The same case holds true when searching for a "Reputable" tuner for our modded engines right?
I hope this sheds a bit more light on this commonly mis-understood subject.
Good Luck to all in finding the RIGHT alignment shop in your area.
See how nobody has offered to take up my customized rear control arm offer? Strange, so strange.......
03-20-07, 11:55 AM
#156
Driver
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An operator follows a spec sheet, but an engineer/ technician will determine the specification using their technical expertise (gained through either education and/or experience) in understanding suspension design, geometry and most of all, a lot of hands on experimenting to find out what works best for a particular car, suspension, etc. They will however, use the factory spec as a starting point.
The shop I go to in NorCal has years of experience with tuning, custom suspensions, race cars, exotics, custom mobile homes, you name it. Like I said before, we have had many CL members over to their shop over the past 6 years, so they have a good idea of what settings to start with, then as a follow up, after the alignment is performed, they will test drive the car and if it doesn't behave to their satisfaction they will put the car back up on the rack and tweek the settings again. This last step is one of the reasons why I consider this shop a "Tuner" for suspensions.
The shop I go to in NorCal has years of experience with tuning, custom suspensions, race cars, exotics, custom mobile homes, you name it. Like I said before, we have had many CL members over to their shop over the past 6 years, so they have a good idea of what settings to start with, then as a follow up, after the alignment is performed, they will test drive the car and if it doesn't behave to their satisfaction they will put the car back up on the rack and tweek the settings again. This last step is one of the reasons why I consider this shop a "Tuner" for suspensions.
03-20-07, 12:02 PM
#157
You can also do an advanced search in the Reginal Forums under "Northern California" and enter keyword " +custom +alignment " to read on the history.
Be forwarned that there will also be a lot of meet activity showing up on this search since we have held several meets there, over the years.
Happy Reading
Last edited by RMMGS4; 03-20-07 at 12:14 PM.
03-21-07, 04:41 PM
#158
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RMMGS4 and DoubleWhoosh: Thanks for taking the time to give an elaborate response - these are the type of posts that are most useful. 
After ~30k miles, I personally don't have uneven tire wear with my current setup (dropped on coils about 1.5") but I'm also running 16" tires. I am switching to 19" so this is why I'm making sure I understand what you guys are saying since the rubber will be softer and the sidewalls less forgiving.
I found a shop who will be mounting wheels/tires plus balance with alignment this week. Basically I started my search using Hunter's website to see who had a Hunter 9700 Road Force balancer and then checked out references on Tire Rack. I basically narrowed it down to two shops but after making calls I decided to go with a shop that had a CORGHI Artiglio Master. Plus there was a Lambo at the shop getting tires mounted - figured it's a good place to start.
After ~30k miles, I personally don't have uneven tire wear with my current setup (dropped on coils about 1.5") but I'm also running 16" tires. I am switching to 19" so this is why I'm making sure I understand what you guys are saying since the rubber will be softer and the sidewalls less forgiving.
I found a shop who will be mounting wheels/tires plus balance with alignment this week. Basically I started my search using Hunter's website to see who had a Hunter 9700 Road Force balancer and then checked out references on Tire Rack. I basically narrowed it down to two shops but after making calls I decided to go with a shop that had a CORGHI Artiglio Master. Plus there was a Lambo at the shop getting tires mounted - figured it's a good place to start.
Last edited by RacerLex; 03-21-07 at 10:01 PM.
03-22-07, 10:46 AM
#159
RMMGS4 and DoubleWhoosh: Thanks for taking the time to give an elaborate response - these are the type of posts that are most useful.
After ~30k miles, I personally don't have uneven tire wear with my current setup (dropped on coils about 1.5") but I'm also running 16" tires. I am switching to 19" so this is why I'm making sure I understand what you guys are saying since the rubber will be softer and the sidewalls less forgiving.
I found a shop who will be mounting wheels/tires plus balance with alignment this week. Basically I started my search using Hunter's website to see who had a Hunter 9700 Road Force balancer and then checked out references on Tire Rack. I basically narrowed it down to two shops but after making calls I decided to go with a shop that had a CORGHI Artiglio Master. Plus there was a Lambo at the shop getting tires mounted - figured it's a good place to start.
After ~30k miles, I personally don't have uneven tire wear with my current setup (dropped on coils about 1.5") but I'm also running 16" tires. I am switching to 19" so this is why I'm making sure I understand what you guys are saying since the rubber will be softer and the sidewalls less forgiving.
I found a shop who will be mounting wheels/tires plus balance with alignment this week. Basically I started my search using Hunter's website to see who had a Hunter 9700 Road Force balancer and then checked out references on Tire Rack. I basically narrowed it down to two shops but after making calls I decided to go with a shop that had a CORGHI Artiglio Master. Plus there was a Lambo at the shop getting tires mounted - figured it's a good place to start.
It's a pleasure, knowing you've done your homework (obviously reading other threads) and have a technical understanding of what I was trying to convey.
The Hunter 9700 for tire balancing is also a great decision and it's the ONLY machine I know that can clearly identify tire vibration issues.
Once you are all set up with new tires, alignment, etc. it would be good to take tread depth measurements say every 1000 miles. After about 5k miles you should be able to verify if your tires are wearing evenly. If the inside is going down quicker, you'll need a bit more toe. You can shoot me your alignment settings and I can compare to my notes of other cars to see if we can try a little teeeking.
Good Luck
03-22-07, 10:59 AM
#160
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My GS' steering is a off center (right) since I hit a pothole on the front left tire but these are my alignment settings before and current. Again these are on 16" tires. I'll post my 19" results once they've been mounted.
ALIGNMENT BEFORE I HIT THE POTHOLE 16" wheels
ALIGNMENT AFTER I HIT THE POTHOLE 16" wheels
ALIGNMENT W/19" WHEELS (current)
ALIGNMENT BEFORE I HIT THE POTHOLE 16" wheels
ALIGNMENT AFTER I HIT THE POTHOLE 16" wheels
ALIGNMENT W/19" WHEELS (current)
Last edited by RacerLex; 04-04-07 at 11:34 AM.
03-22-07, 11:34 AM
#161
I'll have to compare your before settings with some of the specs I have collected from various members who have used my alignment shop, but first I need to find them. 
I'm a bit busy this week, but if I don't get back to you within a week from now, please shoot me a PM as a reminder.
I'm a bit busy this week, but if I don't get back to you within a week from now, please shoot me a PM as a reminder.
04-03-07, 01:08 PM
#162
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these ones seem clean what do you guys think of this? simple http://www.more-japan.com/Nagisa-Aut...r-p-18375.html
04-03-07, 01:13 PM
#163
Lexus Fanatic
CAMBER KIT HAS ARRIVED!!!!! and then some
Did you check out this thread..
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...ghlight=tanabe
Did you check out this thread..
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...ghlight=tanabe
04-04-07, 08:47 AM
#164
these ones seem clean what do you guys think of this? simple http://www.more-japan.com/Nagisa-Aut...r-p-18375.html
We want to SUBTRACT camber not add more.
This kit is good for drifting set ups not for street set ups.
04-04-07, 09:14 AM
#165
abouth the only part that i see that might be useful for street is the castor arm , everything else is more designed for track/drifting and will add to a very uncomfortable and unforgiving and horribly bad tramlining sensation on the streets