emLEX

EDIT: This turned out to be a longer post than expected.

In an ongoing repair and preventative maintenance pursuit I've decided to replace my control arm bushings, starting with the front. The car is a 95 SC400 with a lot of miles(250k), but having removed the control arms it appears as they have been replaced at some point, maybe not forever ago. The bushings aren't nearly as bad as I had imagined they would be, the bolts came right out, look great(very minimal corrosion on the threads but none on the shaft) and still had non dried up/sticky lubricant/grease on them. Seeing all of the above makes me think that both the bushings and bolts had been replaced.

Ball joints feel loose when moving them around by hand, but no up/down or side to side play that I can feel. Boots are slightly torn on driver's side, but not on the passenger side.

I ordered upper and lower poly bushings prior to removing the control arms, but haven't installed them yet. Reading more online, it seems that poly may not be such a great choice for a street car. The car is lowered with Megan EZStreet coilovers and 18" wheels. I drive it rather spiritedly, but it's not a track/drift car so super stiff and squeaky suspension bits would be annoying.

All of this leads me to possibly just buying Supra control arms and selling the poly bushings. I hesitate due to 2 things,

1. Cost
2. NOS parts sitting on a shelf for who knows how long and the chance of dried up rubber bushings that will fail quickly.

Supra LCAs can be found for about $275 shipped, so $550 for both lowers. Add either $200(aftermarket) or about $500(OEM) uppers and it adds up quickly.

So, my questions are,

1. The above description of the ball joint condition, is it bad? Does it need to be replaced?
2. Are poly bushings as bad as some people describe on a street car?
3. Has anyone purchased Supra arms recently and found them to be old NOS, with dry rubber?

Thanks.

Maserati

iTrader: (1)

Hey There! i just bought Supra Arms for my car and will get getting them installed Next weekend . In all reality, its best to get new arms. Ball joints aren't service able and you never know when its going to drop out. I bough poly bushings for sterring rack & LCA. It does firm up a bit but its not like going all solid where you feel the whole bloody road. Same thing for UCA, bushing can extend, but its the ball joint that really matters.I also bought UCA's for like 90 or so bucks on ebay. It always best to go new. If your keeping the car forever like i am get new!,if not you can jump to used arms.
Ill link them here http://www.ebay.com/itm/370908394587?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

PS. What's NOS?

t2d2

iTrader: (8)

Usually New Old Stock, but I've also seen it as New On Shelf. Same meaning either way: something that's been sitting in the warehouse for years.

GTX580

iTrader: (3)

1. The above description of the ball joint condition, is it bad? Does it need to be replaced? YES
2. Are poly bushings as bad as some people describe on a street car? GO POLY IMHO, I daily mycar, full poly w/ solid rack bushing and no NVH, my sc drives better than my BRZ except for that high ratio rack.

BlackIRON

I second buying those 93-96 supra LCAs they fit straight into my 99 perfectly,ordered both from toyota, and its better to just do the uppers while your at it. And judging from what you typed about the ball joint , id change them and thats just me i wouldnt like that play.

BiGEZ

iTrader: (24)

I would recommend new Supra control arms, I have been running a set on my car for about a year now with no issues.
I have done the Poly bushings before and swore I would never do that again. it was a royal pain to burn out the old bushing and clean it up. The ride with the Ploy bushings were firm but not too harsh from what I recall.
If you plan on keeping your car for a while I say go with new arms. They are some aftermarket CA's like Megan and FIGS but I have no info on ride quality or fitment.

RXRodger

iTrader: (2)

To the moderators, can we create a new category (like the build thread, suspension, and performance categories) that is titled "SUPRA FRONT LOWER CONTROL ARM THREADS"?

It could be filled up with post after post on this same subject but at least there would be one place to go for the same subject.

Just to capture the main points, you could sticky this one.

• MKIV Supra arms fit the SC300/400. That's a period that ends that sentence.
• Supra arms are less expensive (about half) than the super rip off Lexus price.
• Supra arms have a solid rubber rear bushing instead of the relieved area in the Lexus rear rubber bushing which make them ride a touch rougher but most people couldn't tell the difference.
• The ball joints can't be replaced in the Lexus arms nor the Supra arms, Toyota made certain of that so you would pay their rip off price for the Supra arm or the double rip off price for the Lexus arm. If the ball joint has a tear in the rubber or is loose, see the 2nd note above and buy one or the other.
• You can buy urethane bushings from a multitude of places to replace the rubber bushings in the Lexus or Supra arms if your ball joint is still good and you are willing to burn the old ones out with a torch. If you choose this route, the car will ride a touch rougher than stock, but most people won't be able to tell the difference but some will depending on how discerning they are on the ride.

There are probably more points, so add to as you see necessary.

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

Just to add my .02c, I did the poly bushings on my arms that the joints were good on still, was the worst decision I ever made. they squeak from time to time, they are not as good of a ride compared to the supra arms, and basically not much time later I questioned how good the ball joints were... and for all the labor involved in getting the old bushings out and the new ones in, I could have probably swapped supra arms in twice. I would never do it again from now on every SC I have gets new supra arms so it rides good, tracks straight, and everything is new so you know you are good for another 100k. the poly is overrated for a street car the supra bushings are just the right balance of performance and durability and new balljoints.. its a no brainer.

Looking at the cost of the arms compared to bushings seems like bushings are the way to go... until you do all the labor for the bushings (could be double just replacing arms), then factor in when you balljoint does go bad (which it sounds like its already there) you will have to buy and install supra arms anyways, and then just doing supra arms from the start looks like a much more attractive option.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

It's been mentioned before but just for anyone reading this thread, only FRONT Supra LCA's and UCA's fit the SC chassis. Rear LCA's and UCA's still have to be from Lexus for the SC300/400 (or Z30 Soarer).

I agree that we do have a lot of these LCA threads. I thought this topic was in our sticky list though?

Regarding the ball joints as well as polyurethane bushings not being the best choice for street (which I agree with), my concern comes for when the OEM stock runs out in the future. I know Dorman makes direct aftermarket replacement front upper left & front upper right UCA's (or are these just stock purchased from Toyota and rebranded?) but I do not know of any direct aftermarket replacement front LCA let alone the rear LCA's and UCA's.

We DO have aftermarket adjustable arms for our platform from Figs Engineering (covering almost or all our control arms... I think?) but this is an expensive way to go for a mostly stock or conventionally driven car. Their designs do not have permanent ball joints though. On the isolation material used, I assume they have some polyurethane formulation as well so I am not sure if this would also be ideal for street duty.

It's also worth noting that we tend to buy the less expensive non-aluminum Supra LCA's and UCA's for pre-97 and 98 cars. SC's should also have more expensive aluminum arms from 97-00 but with the less aggressive rubber formulation. That's always another option down the road.

Still... non-replaceable ball joints on the stock arms aside... I'm perplexed as to why there is no aftermarket rubber bushing option made by any company. Seems there would be a big market for OE quality replacement rubber bushings for street cars rather than only poly being available.

RXRodger

iTrader: (2)

Doesn't Whiteline make a rubber bushing? I guess I could look this up rather than just reply, but I'll be lazy instead.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

I just checked Whiteline's website and I did find a full suspension bushing replacement kit for 92-00 SC's but it is described as a "Prothane" which upon further investigation appears to be a variant or brand name type of polyurethane bushing.

emLEX

I thought OEM rubber bushings can be purchased from dealers, am I wrong?

I'm also pretty sure I came across OEM rubber bushings on ebay when I was shopping around for the polys, but that was about a year ago and I could be remembering it wrong.

Blkexcoupe

iTrader: (8)

Whiteline uses a "Synthetic Elastomer" bushings which is supposed to solve all the noise issues normally associated with polyurethane bushings. Whiteline only sells bushings individually from what I can remember (Similar to how super pro does it)

The complete car kit you found is manufactured by Prothane which is polyurethane, and it is the cheapest bushing option available for our cars. Daizen bushings are relabeled prothane parts, but the rear prothane kit includes the shock mount bushing (daizen doesn't include it).

For rubber bushings there used to be a company in Australia that made rubber bushings called Vlamos. I'm not sure if they're still in business, but no one talks about them anymore.

I've spent an extensive amount of time doing research on bushing options for this car since I have a 98 and no one could give me an answer to what bushings would fit. I ended up taking a part a 92-96 arms to compare them to my 97+ arms to figure out a solution.
OEM used to be available over 10 years ago. I tried to buy them 7 or 8 years ago and they weren't available. There are rubber replacement bushings available on ebay, but they're all manufactures I have never heard of.