Pen

I have been in contact with Andrew about ordering the bushes, and the good news is that he will soon (weeks) have available replacement bushes for the upper and rear control arms, so you will be able to refurbish the complete set. That has to be nice, no noises, no harshness.

lex400sc

Question: Has anyone here installed and compared both Daizen and Vlamos bushings in their SC? If not, I don't see how any of you can be so sure which one is superior.

Pen

I think it's pretty sad when you have to resort to name calling and stuff.

An end user commented on his personal experience with a product and you try to apply censorship.

That doesn't help either your credibility or that of the product that YOU wish to promote.

If you replaced stuffed bushes with new ones of any sort, there will obviously be an improvment, but that isn't comparing apples with apples.

No disrespect for Todd, Daizen or anyone, but in a free market people are allowed to choose what they want for any reason they want, they don't have to buy X product just because of "mates rules".

While everyone wants more sales, I am sure that all manufacturers would rather that their product be able to stand on it's own merits, not just because it is protected by censorship and black banning.

I have searched the major Lexus forums (LSOC, TIFF, ALSC and this one) for all articles regarding these bushes, and from all of that, my personal preference is to get back the best ride and handling quality, so I am choosing to go for the rubber bushes. I haven't read of a single complaint with them, nor any instances of them being replaced with poly bushes.

If you read the reviews from when the car was new, the handling and ride was always considered excellent, that was with the factory bushes. Over time they deteriorate, it's just another serviceable part on the car like an air filter. Some people just want to get back to that original high standard of excellence.

That you chose otherwise is fine too.

SC400TT

iTrader: (4)

Gents:

All I can say is the following:

1) I put Andrews bushings on my 93 SC400. They ride excellently. All of the problems I was having with the front wheels- Tramlining, abnormal wear, premature wear, feathering, etc.

2) The problems are gone.

3) I have Altstadt Type 1 18x8.5 wheels in the front, and 18x9.5 in the rears riding Nitto NT555 Extreme ZR's. My car corners like it is on rails. On sharp turns, I no longer get that warbling effect that I got when I had the stuffed bushings.

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Advertising of any kind is prohibited in any posting area of ClubLexus forums. Individuals interested in advertising on ClubLexus should contact us at advertising@clublexus.com. All the advertising threads will either be moved or closed.

Ryan, I understand that you are awaiting Vendor approval with CL, until that time, please no references to advertising. Thanks! I am sure we are all looking forward to your progress.]


Ryan Allen
RYA Performance

pcmw

My experience only.

I installed BOTH types. The Daizen's in my car and the OEM Style Replacements from oversees. I would have to admit that BOTH were of great quality. I felt that the Daizen's improved the ride and handling. The ones that Vlamos built put everything back to stock. If I was to restore my car or just wanted a cush ride, then yes....maybe get the ones from Vlamos. Otherwise, I would have to say that the Daizens are a better cost/performance product. Easier/cheaper to install, instant performance upgrade, no worry of replacement after another 45k miles, and quicker to ship. I think Daizen now sells an alignment kit, front upper control arm bushings, rear control arm bushings, sway bar bushings and other parts that MATCH. I did write up a how-2 that is posted here. I can try and find the picks of the machine shop pressing in Vlamos bushings. They did fit perfectly, but took us 2 days to install. The Daizens took 5 hours on the ground with just jack stands and the factory jack. I think it could be done in 3 hours on a lift.

MW

CrazeeSC

this is good that is good apples oranges--- I think you are the one that needs to calm down yousure are defensive bro

Pen

Pcmw: Interesting read, many thanks.
Just curious about the fitting times though, workshops that have done it here quote between 3 and 5 hours for the job with the rubber bushes.
Which suspension model does the SC400 have? The JDM spec ones we get here have either springs, air-bag or active hydraulic. Mine has springs which are pretty firm to start with, so it's probably still best for me to go with rubber.



CrazeeSC: Non-interesting read, it doesn't even make sense.
That your previous post was deleted speaks for itself.

SC400TT

iTrader: (4)

We put Vlamos bushings on my SC400. It only took 3 hours to do. Simple. You must have access to a Hydraulic press, as the bushings cannot be pushed in by hand. They must be pressed in with approximately 5,000 PSI.

Ryan

sctrd

I decided after reading all the comments and everyone's opinion to go with daizen bushings.I called Todd and got my bushings in 3 days and I live in Hawaii (pretty fast for priority mail huh)..Thanks Todd for your fast delivery and service.I think it's all about service and quality.Let you know how the job turns out P.S How can you go wrong paying $99.95 for upper and lower control arm bushings for both sides and get better performance..

CrazeeSC

This is the benefit of the Daizenyou don't need any special tools. I have heard that you need to make a special die press to even get the old sleeves outif you press them like this!!!


Maybe that's why pcmw had to take so long to install he's pretty good with these SC and Im suprised it was so long. I asked my mechanic about it and hesaid the arm shape is super hard to press out and you need a special die fixture or something like taht

SC400TT

iTrader: (4)

I do not know that I would call that a benefit. I can understand why some would. We had never done this before, and we did not have any special die or tool. We still got it done within about 3 hours. I must again state, I do not believe urethane to be an upgrade, or an improvement. If they were, I believe we would find alot more manufacturers using them. Besides, the Lexus was made for not only excellent handling, but for comfort, prestige, style, smoothness, etc. I believe a better way to improve handling and maintain comfort is to install some top of the line coilovers, such as the Tein Flex with the EDFC. You can get this upgrade for less than $2,000 installed, and the handling will truly corner on rails, as well as keep the wheels on the road very effectively.

If someone wants to go with the Daizens, that is fine with me, but I do not believe they are an upgrade. They are just different. And if you have read any of my recent posts, I am not a JDm stocker. But, the rubber bushes are the only way to go, in my opinion. My car corners and handles exceptionally well, even with the stock suspension. One great improvement to my handling was the changing of the tires and wheels to 18's and sticky rubber. That is also a great mod. Again, over $2,000, but well worth it.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.

Ryan

CrazeeSC

So now your sayingthey are not a upgrade??? How do you know this you are not an engineer!
You havent even tested all of them and I believe pcmw more than anything you can possibly say!

My dazien bushing ride just like stock, but in the turns its much improved, not bad for something that doesn't upgrade, the samething was said by pcmw along with a lot more people here on wonderful Club Lexus.

I don't understand why you have to keep arguing it unless you are here to sell these things and bash daizen. They have supported us from day one and always will long after you have moved on.

I wish this thread would get deleted or locked its sure a good way for you to get publicity to sell things on CL vendor without being a vendor. Maybe I can sell you a bridge too along with your supercharger

SC400TT

iTrader: (4)

Hey Crazee:

I certainly did not mean to step on your toes with my words. And, I am most certainly not selling anything at this time. I merely stated my opinion. Seems to me you are doing the bashing. I clearly stated that my thoughts were my opinion. Am I not as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours? Are you an engineer? You must be the way you tout the urethane bushings. I could care less who makes them. The fact that they are urethane does not impress me, that is all. Why do you have to get so uptight because I only speak my opinion?

As a matter of fact, I am an engineer, but not in the science of rubber and urethane. But, since you seem to need to have this one checked out by an engineer, I will contact one that is unbiased, and ask him to post his opinion solely upon the materials. Let's see what he says.

You want this thread closed? Report it to the moderator. I am sure he will if he deems it necessary. My question is why are you so upset? You seem as deadset on the urethanes as being the best, and I am as much on the rubber bushes being the best. Infact, it seems that you are doing your best to convince the readers of this thread to purchase the Daizens. Who's doing the selling here? Can we not agree to differ? Hostility is most certainly not necessary.

How about we leave it at this? You have your opinion, I have my opinion, and everybody else has theirs? Isn't that what makes up the world?

Altstadt

CrazeeSC

This is what I dont get you say yours are better but you never tried both????? This is true bias if you ask me>>> and you are not a vendor but you are trying to sell theseyou already got in trouble once! All of your posts are comercially biased which is wrong this is not a comercial advertising area!!!!! Maybe this is what you dontrealize and you should really calm down bro your not makeing friends here if you get so mad

I only said yours are the sameas stock, and that is not an upgrade. You say the bushings on my car are not good and not an upgrade but how can you know this>>>>IMPOSSIBLE!!!!

Pen

Crazee, you aren't acheiving much. You attack anyone that has a different view to you, simply because they have a different view to you.

Lets get simple. Plastic bushes are stiffer and have less "give" than rubber bushes.

This will give more direct feel, but also added hardness.

It is a bit like putting 20" wheels with low profile tyres on the car, you get better grip, but the ride goes out the window as there isn't enough tyre sidewall to provide much "give" when the wheel hits a bump. Some people accept the trade-off in order for the car to look nice etc. Many people don't however.

For this reason, rubber bushes are fitted to new cars, not plastic ones, in fact I don't know of a single manufacturer that fits plastic bushes despite the cost saving as they are a LOT cheaper to make. There may well be some, just that I don't know of any, so pardon my ignorance if I am wrong.

Everything is a trade-off.
Plastic bushes: Cheap, more feel from the suspension, but harder ride and need greasing.
Rubber bushes: Expensive, smoother ride, better isolation from hard bumps, quieter, but need replacing every 10 years or so.

I also checked with Andrew, there isn't currently a distributor for his bushes in USA, so there isn't anyone posting here with any commercial interest in saying that they like the rubber bushes.

For what it's worth, I also asked him why he developed the rubber bushes.

>A: Before I knew anything about bushes, I had my original lower front
>control arm bushes removed and replaced with nylothane because mine were
>shot......at that time they workshop phoned me and said it would be a good
>idea to also replace the uppers to keep all things equal....this made
>sense to me so i said OK....they said, by the way Sir, your steering rack
>is also weeping...OMG.... do the whole front end up I said.
>One week and $2300 later I drove my car away and thought what a heap of
>**** this, f@#%*%3# rides like a bull dozer and creaked like a frog
>farm...........
>Peter the rest is history i replaced all the parts (nylothane) with second
>hand OEM parts from the wreckers to bring the car back to standard and
>then spent a small fortune developing /cloning the bushes we have today
>for the front of my car only. Honestly it was never my intention to make
>these available to anyone else. Rob Hayden convinced me to have Peter
>Scott test them and if they worked, make them available to the ALSC
>members.

Personally I think anyone that helps us maintain these fine cars, be it Daizen, Andrew or people lile Peter Scott who is always learning and sharing new information, all deserve a big thanks for their work.

At the end of the day, we can all choose whichever bushes we want, there is no need for you to accuse people of anything simply because they state their own experiences and opinions.

As to your point about not being stock having to be an upgrade, that is not valid either. You can fit different air filters for example, but there is no evidence to support that the after market filters offer a better combination of air flow and dust collection than the originals.