Lower Control Arms
08-06-03, 09:55 PM
#33
My front bushings were trashed,and I already don't like urethane for wear,so I used a material that has proven bearing characteristics,better than urethane,and made them myself.They proved to last about a year with normal (for me)driving.The material didn't cost much since my company has an account with the supplier,so I'm not out too much.
My next move is to install some rubber,firmer,stock type of bushings into some steel sleeves and go with that.Did I mention I have a lathe to use?
The original,forward,lower control arm bushing is a pretty nice part,and I wish I would have left it intact,since the rear ones were clearly the weak link,but they're all long gone now.
I'll be using a smaller diameter bushing in front than in the rear,keeping some of the original cushy engineering geometry from the original suspension.
My next move is to install some rubber,firmer,stock type of bushings into some steel sleeves and go with that.Did I mention I have a lathe to use?
The original,forward,lower control arm bushing is a pretty nice part,and I wish I would have left it intact,since the rear ones were clearly the weak link,but they're all long gone now.
I'll be using a smaller diameter bushing in front than in the rear,keeping some of the original cushy engineering geometry from the original suspension.
08-06-03, 11:42 PM
#34
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I just got my new rubber bushes from Andrew, very nicely made indeed. It looks like the rubber has been moulded into the steel sleeves and I am also pretty sure I read somewhere that the metal sleeves actually have splines to grip the rubber so that the rubber provides torsion and doesn't have the slip that the platic bushes have.
I hope to have them fitted in the next couple of days, along with Andrew's steering rack bushes, have to wait for the workshop to have time for me.
SCV8, sounds like an interesting challenge.
I hope to have them fitted in the next couple of days, along with Andrew's steering rack bushes, have to wait for the workshop to have time for me.
SCV8, sounds like an interesting challenge.
08-07-03, 03:36 AM
#35
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I ordered and fitted genuine TRD performance bushes to my SC400 after having had urethene bushes in there for some years. I run 8.5" rims up front with 245/40/18 tyres and when the TRD bushes were fitted I started to experience a lot of tracking problems.
After some time I also started getting this pitching back and forth from front to rear. Like riding a rocking horse. The car became worse and worse to drive over long distances and I tried everything to locate and rectify the problem.
The car is an airbag suspension Soarer GT Limited and I replaced all of the airbag struts, steering rack bushes, stabilizer bars, wheels, tyres and finally after putting up with it for nearly two years, I parked it in the garage and walked away most perplexed.
The along came Andrew with his theory on bushes and after talking with him, I agreed to test the new rubber replacement bushes. He expected that a lot of my problems were being caused because the front was now too rigid and the car was effectively trying to rear wheel steer as the rear still had soft compliant Toyota bushes.
Consequently I have changed the lower control arm bushes and steering rack bushes to Andrews Toyota copies and the car is awesome. I'd say better than new!! Not only are the suspension bushes new, but in my case, so is every bloody other thing under the car.
The car is transformed. The soft compliant ride designed into the car by Toyota has returned, and the car is totally precise. Turn in is incredible and accurate and the tracking problems from my tyres had disapeared completely. You can only imagine what the car is like on a racetrack now. Fast and confident is the best way to describe it.
Until you try these bushes, you can not even imagine what they will do for your car. I know!! Urethene bushes, TRD bushes, they all suck, and make the car a real handful. Put in the Vlamos bushes, you will never go back.
I have a Twin Turbo Soarer with a top of the line active suspension UZZ32 in the wind and you can be assured of one thing. All of my cars will be fitted with Vlamos bushes. No doubt about it.
After some time I also started getting this pitching back and forth from front to rear. Like riding a rocking horse. The car became worse and worse to drive over long distances and I tried everything to locate and rectify the problem.
The car is an airbag suspension Soarer GT Limited and I replaced all of the airbag struts, steering rack bushes, stabilizer bars, wheels, tyres and finally after putting up with it for nearly two years, I parked it in the garage and walked away most perplexed.
The along came Andrew with his theory on bushes and after talking with him, I agreed to test the new rubber replacement bushes. He expected that a lot of my problems were being caused because the front was now too rigid and the car was effectively trying to rear wheel steer as the rear still had soft compliant Toyota bushes.
Consequently I have changed the lower control arm bushes and steering rack bushes to Andrews Toyota copies and the car is awesome. I'd say better than new!! Not only are the suspension bushes new, but in my case, so is every bloody other thing under the car.
The car is transformed. The soft compliant ride designed into the car by Toyota has returned, and the car is totally precise. Turn in is incredible and accurate and the tracking problems from my tyres had disapeared completely. You can only imagine what the car is like on a racetrack now. Fast and confident is the best way to describe it.
Until you try these bushes, you can not even imagine what they will do for your car. I know!! Urethene bushes, TRD bushes, they all suck, and make the car a real handful. Put in the Vlamos bushes, you will never go back.
I have a Twin Turbo Soarer with a top of the line active suspension UZZ32 in the wind and you can be assured of one thing. All of my cars will be fitted with Vlamos bushes. No doubt about it.
08-07-03, 08:35 PM
#36
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"They all suck"
Since you never tried them how do you know??????? I see you post a lot on here wait no you just came in here because these guys told you to come in here and back them up...bring on the posse!!! NOT!!!!!
Once again you are all people that haven't tried something and are alreadycomplaining about it. And alstadt is the exclusive importer but he sayshe isn't make up your mind!!!
I think your here to make money off of us
Since you never tried them how do you know??????? I see you post a lot on here wait no you just came in here because these guys told you to come in here and back them up...bring on the posse!!! NOT!!!!!
Once again you are all people that haven't tried something and are alreadycomplaining about it. And alstadt is the exclusive importer but he sayshe isn't make up your mind!!!
I think your here to make money off of us
08-07-03, 09:47 PM
#37
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Geez, I try to have an intelligent conversation on what is actually pretty technical stuff and it turns into pure entertainment. I started this thread and I may get to finish it as my Vlamos bushes are on their way. Trust me, I will tell you just how easy they are to install, how long it takes (even it takes the use of a $5 jig for pressing them in), and how well they work even though there are enough testamonials for me to have coughed up the $500 to take the chance.
As previously stated, and I believe most agree, TM's bushes are fine and a lot less money but I'm not into pissing about with grease and/or squeaks every year or so; I just want a Toyota-equivalent replacement that resolves my loose front end and gets me back to stock.
Cheers,
James
As previously stated, and I believe most agree, TM's bushes are fine and a lot less money but I'm not into pissing about with grease and/or squeaks every year or so; I just want a Toyota-equivalent replacement that resolves my loose front end and gets me back to stock.
Cheers,
James
08-07-03, 11:27 PM
#38
08-08-03, 03:37 AM
#39
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HEHEHEHEHE My Turn,,
I have fitted and tried BOTH of these Bushes...Nolathane & Vlam's.
Yes,,Easy to fit Nolothane.
Harder to fit Vlam's OEM Replacements..
If you really want a hard ride..??? No one has mentioned the "Rose Joints" that are available.
SCV8...Heres a Secret,,Vlam does the Rubber ones with 10% Harder rubber if you want..Shorter life,,but ready for the track..More expensive of course..
Oh,,I dont Resell...I have a Workshop..So I fit quite a few Parts to Soarers..
At least I know something that a lot of AfterMarket Places Don't..There is a DIFFERANCE in the rear Upper Control Arms..Between the TT/300/400/LTD/Active.....Not tellin either,,,heheheh
Lets come back to this Thread in 10 years and see Who's Rubber and Who's Nolathanes are STILL running in there car ???
I know I will still have my car in 10 years..
SCV8,,Can you confirm with me about Why OEM's use Rubber Vulcanized onto a Ferral Tube ??? Be it because it is to Allow Flex in the joint area to remove the Strain/Stress from the Assosiated Area ??An Absorber you may say ! Remember..these cars have a few Alloy area's in the Handeling Dept ! If you had a Very Close look at the rear uppers,you will see what I mean ?Thats me Secret..heheheh...I wonder why OEM didnt save Millions in production costs and just use Nolo ??Geez..like some OEM car's have Rivits instead of Bolts & Nuts ?? Cheaper..
Latter Folks...
I have fitted and tried BOTH of these Bushes...Nolathane & Vlam's.
Yes,,Easy to fit Nolothane.
Harder to fit Vlam's OEM Replacements..
If you really want a hard ride..??? No one has mentioned the "Rose Joints" that are available.
SCV8...Heres a Secret,,Vlam does the Rubber ones with 10% Harder rubber if you want..Shorter life,,but ready for the track..More expensive of course..
Oh,,I dont Resell...I have a Workshop..So I fit quite a few Parts to Soarers..
At least I know something that a lot of AfterMarket Places Don't..There is a DIFFERANCE in the rear Upper Control Arms..Between the TT/300/400/LTD/Active.....Not tellin either,,,heheheh
Lets come back to this Thread in 10 years and see Who's Rubber and Who's Nolathanes are STILL running in there car ???
I know I will still have my car in 10 years..
SCV8,,Can you confirm with me about Why OEM's use Rubber Vulcanized onto a Ferral Tube ??? Be it because it is to Allow Flex in the joint area to remove the Strain/Stress from the Assosiated Area ??An Absorber you may say ! Remember..these cars have a few Alloy area's in the Handeling Dept ! If you had a Very Close look at the rear uppers,you will see what I mean ?Thats me Secret..heheheh...I wonder why OEM didnt save Millions in production costs and just use Nolo ??Geez..like some OEM car's have Rivits instead of Bolts & Nuts ?? Cheaper..
Latter Folks...
08-08-03, 04:20 AM
#40
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CrazeeSC,
Did you happen to read my post, or just skip over the important parts.
I'm sure that the content of my post included the fact that I've actually USED (in caps so you don't miss it) all three types of bushes, and four if you count the factory arms.
Uerethene, TRD, Vlamos, and Factory arms.
Yep!! That's four.
Four good reasons for me to make a qualified statement and appraisal of the bushes.
People visit my forum for comprehensive information, a bit of banter, and a lot of fun. I'm sure you came here for some of the same. Please don't prove me wrong by making an *** of yourself.
Did you happen to read my post, or just skip over the important parts.
I'm sure that the content of my post included the fact that I've actually USED (in caps so you don't miss it) all three types of bushes, and four if you count the factory arms.
Uerethene, TRD, Vlamos, and Factory arms.
Yep!! That's four.
Four good reasons for me to make a qualified statement and appraisal of the bushes.
People visit my forum for comprehensive information, a bit of banter, and a lot of fun. I'm sure you came here for some of the same. Please don't prove me wrong by making an *** of yourself.
08-08-03, 12:52 PM
#42
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Vegas, I started wondering about my bushes when I noticed that I was getting tramlining, and that it appeared to be getting worse. The car jumps left and right a little due to bumps etc on the road.
Then I started to get a clunk occasionally when turning over a bump, eg turning out of the driveway at my son's work place. At this point I decided I had better take it seriously, started reading about the bushes and had the car up on a hoist where the deterioration was visible.
The uppers still appear to be OK, and apparently they don't wear as fast.
You can see pics here http://web.ace.net.au/soarer/bushes.html though I hope to take better ones next week when we do the job.
Other people have reported noticing a clunk if they reverse and brake, then go forward and brake etc.
From my observations, the bushes general lifetime is around 10 years. Once they have aged, they then get mangled with heavy cornering and in my case, with the added stress from the bigger wheels. Possibly if I still had the original wheels and drove like grandpa then the bushes wouldn't be breaking up so much.
If you have any suspicions at all, get it checked out. As the deterioration is gradual, it probably isn't noticed by a lot of drivers, so it could almost be seen as a handling upgrade
Then I started to get a clunk occasionally when turning over a bump, eg turning out of the driveway at my son's work place. At this point I decided I had better take it seriously, started reading about the bushes and had the car up on a hoist where the deterioration was visible.
The uppers still appear to be OK, and apparently they don't wear as fast.
You can see pics here http://web.ace.net.au/soarer/bushes.html though I hope to take better ones next week when we do the job.
Other people have reported noticing a clunk if they reverse and brake, then go forward and brake etc.
From my observations, the bushes general lifetime is around 10 years. Once they have aged, they then get mangled with heavy cornering and in my case, with the added stress from the bigger wheels. Possibly if I still had the original wheels and drove like grandpa then the bushes wouldn't be breaking up so much.
If you have any suspicions at all, get it checked out. As the deterioration is gradual, it probably isn't noticed by a lot of drivers, so it could almost be seen as a handling upgrade
08-08-03, 06:31 PM
#43
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The slots on the Andrew Vlamos replacement bushes are of a slightly different design to the original bushes - the slots are a bit smaller with more rubber where the original ones fail. I don't know if rubber technology has improved since 1991. I would expect the bushes to last longer than the originals for these two reasons. The bushes are made professionally (like tyres) - the inner sleeve is wrapped in rubber strips then a die (with slots cast into it) is pushed in at massive temperature and pressure to make the bush.
I have probably done more miles (20 000 miles so far) on the Vlamos rubber bushes and more trackdays than most - still early days but next alignment I'll pop the arms out for a bit of a look - probably wouldn't be able to tell anything but I'll have a look anyway. They still feel alright and I haven't had any problems (as you would expect after only 20 000 miles). My original bushes probably failed at 60 000 miles or 11 years - I don't know which is the important factor - time or miles - surely miles -but the time period wouldn't help.
I believe the Daizen bushes use a softer compound Urethane than other infamous urethane bushes.
I have heard no-one complaining about the Daizen bushes after fitting them.
I have heard no-one complaining about the Andrew Valmos rubber Bushes either.
In fact I have only heard good things about both types of bushes.
There has been a bit of complaining after NOT fitting the bushes - this has been most amusing
I think there is only one way to sort this all out:
Warning! - the following contains some not so sensible ideas!
We need two teams. Say 5 Daizen foot soldiers and 5 Vlamos foot soldiers. We get them together for a bit of a superbowl olympics type thing. Round 1 in Australia, then Round 2 in the US - if all tied up perhaps Canada for round 3 the decider.
We get all 10 guys together in a pub - see who can drink the most beer (and not that light weight american beer, but real Australian beer like Coopers!
- I guess home team can pick the beer like in Davis Cup tennis), then they can have a pissing competition (like in the Canadian Club ads) - then we get some girls and see who is the best lover, then we get a car and a racetrack and see who is the best driver, then we have a cussing competition - see who can swear the best. That's five events. Do we need anymore?
So then we add up all the points after the three rounds and we will finally know which is the best bush. Even if we don't find out which is the best bush sounds like lot of fun!
Actually sounds like a regular Phillip Island track weekend but without the US boys!
There comes a time when, in all of our lives, some things just have to bee said.
I have been thinking of the best way to say this to you all, but since tone of voice is so important, ( I don't want anyone to mis-understand what I am trying to say), please look at this web page(you will need a sound card):
Important annoucement!
I have probably done more miles (20 000 miles so far) on the Vlamos rubber bushes and more trackdays than most - still early days but next alignment I'll pop the arms out for a bit of a look - probably wouldn't be able to tell anything but I'll have a look anyway. They still feel alright and I haven't had any problems (as you would expect after only 20 000 miles). My original bushes probably failed at 60 000 miles or 11 years - I don't know which is the important factor - time or miles - surely miles -but the time period wouldn't help.
I believe the Daizen bushes use a softer compound Urethane than other infamous urethane bushes.
I have heard no-one complaining about the Daizen bushes after fitting them.
I have heard no-one complaining about the Andrew Valmos rubber Bushes either.
In fact I have only heard good things about both types of bushes.
There has been a bit of complaining after NOT fitting the bushes - this has been most amusing
I think there is only one way to sort this all out:
Warning! - the following contains some not so sensible ideas!
We need two teams. Say 5 Daizen foot soldiers and 5 Vlamos foot soldiers. We get them together for a bit of a superbowl olympics type thing. Round 1 in Australia, then Round 2 in the US - if all tied up perhaps Canada for round 3 the decider.
We get all 10 guys together in a pub - see who can drink the most beer (and not that light weight american beer, but real Australian beer like Coopers!
- I guess home team can pick the beer like in Davis Cup tennis), then they can have a pissing competition (like in the Canadian Club ads) - then we get some girls and see who is the best lover, then we get a car and a racetrack and see who is the best driver, then we have a cussing competition - see who can swear the best. That's five events. Do we need anymore? So then we add up all the points after the three rounds and we will finally know which is the best bush. Even if we don't find out which is the best bush sounds like lot of fun!
Actually sounds like a regular Phillip Island track weekend but without the US boys!
There comes a time when, in all of our lives, some things just have to bee said.
I have been thinking of the best way to say this to you all, but since tone of voice is so important, ( I don't want anyone to mis-understand what I am trying to say), please look at this web page(you will need a sound card):
Important annoucement!
08-09-03, 05:02 AM
#45
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To all of you, I am just trying to have a little fun at this point. Bushes are an interesting subject, but not worth fighting over!!
