Camber adjustment
04-19-10, 10:13 PM
#1
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Camber adjustment
Why would engineers design a car with no camber adjustment? My wifes car is a '06 GS300 and the car has the factory suspention at the factory ride height. The inside of all the tires are wearing at a high rate and I have rotated them myself about every 5K miles. I have even tried increasing the tire pressure. The alignment shop says the car is in factory specs so my conclusion is the factory specs are BS.
I have done a search and I understand why others that have lowered the car will have more camber and tire wear. But for a stock car to have this kinda tire wear with no way to adjust is just stupid.
Has anyone come up with a solution?
I have done a search and I understand why others that have lowered the car will have more camber and tire wear. But for a stock car to have this kinda tire wear with no way to adjust is just stupid.
Has anyone come up with a solution?
04-19-10, 10:51 PM
#2
for any cars, if setup is done right (even from factory), there will (should) be negative cambers. this is for handling purposes. your c5 should have the same problem too. over time there will be more inside wear than outside wear in general. that's completely normal. the question should be how fast.
if a car has completely zero camber, i can say for sure the handling will suck big time. now the key is on the toe. people need to keep in mind that negative camber will hurt inside wear, but that's not the biggest enemy. biggest enemy is toe, especially toe out.
a lot of times, good shops will try to get to the more toe in side of the factory spec, which will help to compensate the negative camber for more even wear overall. but a lot of times if a shop keep it on the more toe out side of the spec, that can induce faster inside wear
having less adjustable arms is actually a good thing sometimes. reading the 2gs forum and people will tell you why. toes and cambers are both adjustable and it's so painful how easily the alignment can be knocked out on the 2gs, i had to do alignment every year. with our cars, you will have to bend the arm to knock it out of alignment (camber wise)
read the other threads and you can see mike is coming up with potential solution of usual camber arms from 2is. but again, you do not want to adjust to 0 camber
if a car has completely zero camber, i can say for sure the handling will suck big time. now the key is on the toe. people need to keep in mind that negative camber will hurt inside wear, but that's not the biggest enemy. biggest enemy is toe, especially toe out.
a lot of times, good shops will try to get to the more toe in side of the factory spec, which will help to compensate the negative camber for more even wear overall. but a lot of times if a shop keep it on the more toe out side of the spec, that can induce faster inside wear
having less adjustable arms is actually a good thing sometimes. reading the 2gs forum and people will tell you why. toes and cambers are both adjustable and it's so painful how easily the alignment can be knocked out on the 2gs, i had to do alignment every year. with our cars, you will have to bend the arm to knock it out of alignment (camber wise)
read the other threads and you can see mike is coming up with potential solution of usual camber arms from 2is. but again, you do not want to adjust to 0 camber
04-19-10, 10:57 PM
#3
What is considered "factory spec"?
Do you have an alignment sheet with you because a lot of times, the alignment guy will just turn a wrench until he sees green on the screen. The range of spec that the computer gives is very wide. A lot of times they will set it uneven too. Your right toe could be 0.05 degree while the left toe could be 0.20, and it's still considered 'acceptable' by the computer.
Like Henry said, toe is the biggest offender when it comes to tire wear. Camber just means you're putting more wear on one part of the tire, but if the camber angle isn't extreme, it shouldn't be a problem. Incorrect toe will have your tires constantly scrubbing against the road as it wants to go in a different direction while the car wants to go straight..
Do you have an alignment sheet with you because a lot of times, the alignment guy will just turn a wrench until he sees green on the screen. The range of spec that the computer gives is very wide. A lot of times they will set it uneven too. Your right toe could be 0.05 degree while the left toe could be 0.20, and it's still considered 'acceptable' by the computer.
Like Henry said, toe is the biggest offender when it comes to tire wear. Camber just means you're putting more wear on one part of the tire, but if the camber angle isn't extreme, it shouldn't be a problem. Incorrect toe will have your tires constantly scrubbing against the road as it wants to go in a different direction while the car wants to go straight..
Last edited by GSteg; 04-19-10 at 11:13 PM.
04-20-10, 12:35 AM
#5
take it from me, you do NOT want something with 0 camber, like rominl said, the handling is like a big pile of horse poo hahaha.... i've ridden on it before and man did i hate it, went back camber'd and was temporarily happy... rotate tires every oil change (front right swapped with rear left, right left swapped with rear right) and you should be absolutely fine =] .... i lasted 6-7 oil changes on my pretty worn out dunlops
04-20-10, 04:43 AM
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Guys I understand camber and how it works but what gets me is how the alignment machine says the car is within the desired factory settings and with these settings the inside of the tires is being "chewed" up. I bought a new set of Michelin tires and they are not going to last 25k miles.
Do these cars run toe out or toe in and how much or little can be run without handeling issues?
Do these cars run toe out or toe in and how much or little can be run without handeling issues?
04-20-10, 08:01 AM
#7
The true 'factory specs' are listed in the 3GS service manual.
Whenever I go in for an alignment on my 2GS, I supply my own spec and I request that they keep the numbers symmetrical as possible. None of that 0.05 degree on one side and 0.15 on the other, no matter if the screen tells them green or not.
In any case, most cars run toe-in from the factory for for straight line stability.
Last edited by GSteg; 04-20-10 at 08:48 AM.
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04-20-10, 12:54 PM
#15
From my Discount Tire Alignment report, it shows the Factory spec Specifications(Min.-Max.)
Front Camber: -1.1 to 0.4 (Left & Right)
Rear Camber: -1.9 to -0.4 (Left & Right)
Front Toe: -0.05 to 0.20 (Left & Right)
Rear Toe: 0.05 to 0.35 (Left & Right)
And my front camber came out -1.2 (L&R) but toe they adjusted to 0.05, and my rear camber is -1.8L and -2.0R, rear toe is 0.25L and 0.20R within their factory spec, so they did not do anything on rear toe. Should I have them adjust the rear toe to negative since I have -1.8 & -2.0 rear camber? just wanna slow down the speed of tire wear
Front Camber: -1.1 to 0.4 (Left & Right)
Rear Camber: -1.9 to -0.4 (Left & Right)
Front Toe: -0.05 to 0.20 (Left & Right)
Rear Toe: 0.05 to 0.35 (Left & Right)
And my front camber came out -1.2 (L&R) but toe they adjusted to 0.05, and my rear camber is -1.8L and -2.0R, rear toe is 0.25L and 0.20R within their factory spec, so they did not do anything on rear toe. Should I have them adjust the rear toe to negative since I have -1.8 & -2.0 rear camber? just wanna slow down the speed of tire wear