rear brake shudder
07-31-24, 02:06 PM
#1
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
rear brake shudder
Been having some rear brake shudder and it has been getting worse. 11.5K miles on the odometer now. Brought the car into a local lexus dealer and the shop foreman drove it and sure enough after a few decent applications of the brakes at highway speeds with some heat in the brakes there was something off. He acknowledged it and they took the car in and are going to take a look at it. I am guessing an entire brake job will be done in the rear but we will see. Classic "warped rotor" feeling which isn't actually warped rotors it is most likely uneven pad deposits...
Car is also in for rear trunk alignment and the on-site body shop is going to look at that. Only good news so far is they gave me a brand new GX 550 with 133 miles on it so I get to check that out for a few days at a minimum.
I will keep everyone posted...
Car is also in for rear trunk alignment and the on-site body shop is going to look at that. Only good news so far is they gave me a brand new GX 550 with 133 miles on it so I get to check that out for a few days at a minimum.
I will keep everyone posted...
08-01-24, 01:22 PM
#2
Pit Crew
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car is still with lexus and got an update this afternoon. they see this same issue on new lexus RX models from time to time.
standard procedure is to "resurface" the rotors AKA cut them. they are putting brand new pads in the car on all 4 corners after resurfacing all 4 rotors. should have an update either later today or tomorrow but they said it is completely covered under warranty.
anyone know if it is standard operating procedure to cut rotors with Lexus? I know with Audi and almost all other German vehicles a dealer would never resurface a rotor and would just replace with new....
standard procedure is to "resurface" the rotors AKA cut them. they are putting brand new pads in the car on all 4 corners after resurfacing all 4 rotors. should have an update either later today or tomorrow but they said it is completely covered under warranty.
anyone know if it is standard operating procedure to cut rotors with Lexus? I know with Audi and almost all other German vehicles a dealer would never resurface a rotor and would just replace with new....
08-01-24, 03:23 PM
#3
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
ok so just got the car back from the dealer. they said this is common on a few of the TX cars they have seen come in and more common on some of the RX models.
they said throwing a new rotor on the car wouldn't solve the issue because rotor run out from the factory is all over the place. they said at the dealer every new brake job includes the labor time to resurface (or cut) the new rotors so that this issue never presents itself. seems wild to me considering it takes hours of labor, a very expensive machine that mounts to the hub, and takes up space on the lift with a car for more time than just doing a regular brake job. I am having a hard time believing this...
on another note here are comments from the work order...
"test drove vehicle and confirmed vibration in the front and rear when braking at highway speed"
"verified excessive noise from front brakes. left front rotor 28mm with 0.07mm run out. right front rotor 28mm with 0.08mm run out. resurfaced both front rotors"
"verified noise from the rear rotors at highway speed. left rear rotor is 16.5mm with 0.17mm run out. right rear rotor 16.5mm with 0.18mm run out. resurfaced both rear rotors"
this is like 0.007" of run out on a car with 11K miles in the rear. seems insane. is this a common issue? also are factory lexus/toyota rotors so out of round they machine them every time? or do you just get around this by going to an independent mechanic and using another rotor that isn't OEM? seems wild to me because I have never heard of rotor run out issues on my last 8 cars whether with OEM or good name brand aftermarket rotors (centric, brembo, zimmerman, etc.).
if anyone has any tea to spill on this topic it would be greatly appreciated.
they said throwing a new rotor on the car wouldn't solve the issue because rotor run out from the factory is all over the place. they said at the dealer every new brake job includes the labor time to resurface (or cut) the new rotors so that this issue never presents itself. seems wild to me considering it takes hours of labor, a very expensive machine that mounts to the hub, and takes up space on the lift with a car for more time than just doing a regular brake job. I am having a hard time believing this...
on another note here are comments from the work order...
"test drove vehicle and confirmed vibration in the front and rear when braking at highway speed"
"verified excessive noise from front brakes. left front rotor 28mm with 0.07mm run out. right front rotor 28mm with 0.08mm run out. resurfaced both front rotors"
"verified noise from the rear rotors at highway speed. left rear rotor is 16.5mm with 0.17mm run out. right rear rotor 16.5mm with 0.18mm run out. resurfaced both rear rotors"
this is like 0.007" of run out on a car with 11K miles in the rear. seems insane. is this a common issue? also are factory lexus/toyota rotors so out of round they machine them every time? or do you just get around this by going to an independent mechanic and using another rotor that isn't OEM? seems wild to me because I have never heard of rotor run out issues on my last 8 cars whether with OEM or good name brand aftermarket rotors (centric, brembo, zimmerman, etc.).
if anyone has any tea to spill on this topic it would be greatly appreciated.
08-02-24, 06:46 AM
#4
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
correction. checked this morning in daylight and it appears new rear brake pads were fitted to the car but the front brake pads appear to be original. just another data point. kind of makes sense since the runout was so far off in the rear versus the front.
if anyone has any input on this topic it would be greatly appreciated. thanks in advance.
if anyone has any input on this topic it would be greatly appreciated. thanks in advance.
08-02-24, 10:01 AM
#5
I'd probably push back on machining my defective rotors as a fix. They're essentially taking away service life of the rotor because it developed unacceptable runout. While the cause is debatable, it happened with all OEM parts and under warranty. I don't think you should have to take a hit on having to replace rotors sooner because they claim OEM rotors are bad (another dubious claim).
08-02-24, 01:36 PM
#6
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Thread Starter
I'd probably push back on machining my defective rotors as a fix. They're essentially taking away service life of the rotor because it developed unacceptable runout. While the cause is debatable, it happened with all OEM parts and under warranty. I don't think you should have to take a hit on having to replace rotors sooner because they claim OEM rotors are bad (another dubious claim).
I honestly don't think the rotors are reusable in a future brake job whether or not they are cut. Rotors are so thin these days it is standard practice to replace with new pads instead of pad slapping cars.
Would love to hear if anyone else has any experience with Lexus and this strange approach.
08-02-24, 09:23 PM
#7
In the Southwest I have seen hundreds of warped brake rotors on nearly all Lexus models. Vehicle owners often overheat the brakes while traveling in the mountains, descending mountain grades.
Lexus will pay the dealer to resurface brake rotors for a customer one time during the warranty period. Normally only the front rotors become warped and need to be machined, however I know a few technicians that always resurface all four rotors because it is "easy money", they always get paid whether it is needed or not.
There is a brake rotor measurement form that must be completed for the warranty claim, rotor runout, thickness variation and rotor thickness measurements can be pulled out of thin air.
Most brake rotors allow for 0.100" of wear/resurfacing, we can get 2 to 3 brake replacements from the original equipment rotors. Those living in the rust belt will get a much shorter life span with the rotors.
Lexus will pay the dealer to resurface brake rotors for a customer one time during the warranty period. Normally only the front rotors become warped and need to be machined, however I know a few technicians that always resurface all four rotors because it is "easy money", they always get paid whether it is needed or not.
There is a brake rotor measurement form that must be completed for the warranty claim, rotor runout, thickness variation and rotor thickness measurements can be pulled out of thin air.
Most brake rotors allow for 0.100" of wear/resurfacing, we can get 2 to 3 brake replacements from the original equipment rotors. Those living in the rust belt will get a much shorter life span with the rotors.
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sheetmetalfab (08-02-24)
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08-03-24, 07:32 AM
#8
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
In the Southwest I have seen hundreds of warped brake rotors on nearly all Lexus models. Vehicle owners often overheat the brakes while traveling in the mountains, descending mountain grades.
Lexus will pay the dealer to resurface brake rotors for a customer one time during the warranty period. Normally only the front rotors become warped and need to be machined, however I know a few technicians that always resurface all four rotors because it is "easy money", they always get paid whether it is needed or not.
There is a brake rotor measurement form that must be completed for the warranty claim, rotor runout, thickness variation and rotor thickness measurements can be pulled out of thin air.
Most brake rotors allow for 0.100" of wear/resurfacing, we can get 2 to 3 brake replacements from the original equipment rotors. Those living in the rust belt will get a much shorter life span with the rotors.
Lexus will pay the dealer to resurface brake rotors for a customer one time during the warranty period. Normally only the front rotors become warped and need to be machined, however I know a few technicians that always resurface all four rotors because it is "easy money", they always get paid whether it is needed or not.
There is a brake rotor measurement form that must be completed for the warranty claim, rotor runout, thickness variation and rotor thickness measurements can be pulled out of thin air.
Most brake rotors allow for 0.100" of wear/resurfacing, we can get 2 to 3 brake replacements from the original equipment rotors. Those living in the rust belt will get a much shorter life span with the rotors.
so if Lexus allows for one machining under warranty and this condition reappears for me will they replace the rotors under warranty or will I have to eat the cost of the next remedy?
do you work for Lexus? And you’re saying most factory Lexus rotors last 2-3 brake pad replacements with this one tenth of an inch margin to have the rotors cut between pad replacements? Is it standard practice to pad slap Lexus vehicles (no rotor replacement)? Thanks for your help.
08-04-24, 12:23 AM
#9
I am a former dealer service department employee. Warped brake rotors normally aren't considered to be a manufacture defect, if the rotors were improperly machined or damaged in some way, this should be noticed early in the ownership of the vehicle. Brake pads are listed as an exclusion in the warranty guide, they are a wear item. Brake rotors can also be considered as a wear item however Lexus will pay dealers to resurface rotors one time during the warranty period.
From my experience, by the time a customer returns for the second time with warped brake rotors, the brake pads are 5 mm or less, this is treated as a maintenance repair: customer pay.
Resurfacing good brake rotors typically removes 0.008" to 0.010" of material, these rotors are heavy and have more than adequate thickness for further service.
From my experience, by the time a customer returns for the second time with warped brake rotors, the brake pads are 5 mm or less, this is treated as a maintenance repair: customer pay.
Resurfacing good brake rotors typically removes 0.008" to 0.010" of material, these rotors are heavy and have more than adequate thickness for further service.
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sheetmetalfab (08-04-24)
08-05-24, 07:42 AM
#10
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
I am a former dealer service department employee. Warped brake rotors normally aren't considered to be a manufacture defect, if the rotors were improperly machined or damaged in some way, this should be noticed early in the ownership of the vehicle. Brake pads are listed as an exclusion in the warranty guide, they are a wear item. Brake rotors can also be considered as a wear item however Lexus will pay dealers to resurface rotors one time during the warranty period.
From my experience, by the time a customer returns for the second time with warped brake rotors, the brake pads are 5 mm or less, this is treated as a maintenance repair: customer pay.
Resurfacing good brake rotors typically removes 0.008" to 0.010" of material, these rotors are heavy and have more than adequate thickness for further service.
From my experience, by the time a customer returns for the second time with warped brake rotors, the brake pads are 5 mm or less, this is treated as a maintenance repair: customer pay.
Resurfacing good brake rotors typically removes 0.008" to 0.010" of material, these rotors are heavy and have more than adequate thickness for further service.
I don't have after machining measurements. I have no idea how much they cut off them because I never bothered to measure with a caliper beforehand.
08-14-24, 06:36 AM
#11
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
just got in another loaner car for my seat issue this morning. 2024 RX 350 with 11.7k miles. rear brakes are pulsating much worse than my car was. guess this is a common lexus issue? I have to imagine it has something to do with the soft pads combined with the rear parking brake deploying every time the car seems to shut off. it is a known thing to not use a parking brake while brakes rotors are hot...
08-14-24, 07:10 AM
#12
I don't disagree with you. I am hard on cars and I will find out if this fix worked within another 6 months. If I run into the same problem I am requesting a complete brake job with all new OEM parts at the dealer under warranty. Time will tell but I would like to avoid repeat trips if I can.
I honestly don't think the rotors are reusable in a future brake job whether or not they are cut. Rotors are so thin these days it is standard practice to replace with new pads instead of pad slapping cars.
Would love to hear if anyone else has any experience with Lexus and this strange approach.
I honestly don't think the rotors are reusable in a future brake job whether or not they are cut. Rotors are so thin these days it is standard practice to replace with new pads instead of pad slapping cars.
Would love to hear if anyone else has any experience with Lexus and this strange approach.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-...ance-tips.html
08-14-24, 07:17 AM
#13
Pit Crew
Thread Starter
anti-seize won't make any difference with heat transfer. it will prevent you from having to hammer stuck rotors off a car though... I am convinced this is a pad material issue.
08-14-24, 08:11 AM
#14
Strange it is rear brakes, have they check calipers? The other thing that comes to mind is the safety systems that brakes if your taking corner to fast. You may want to shut off all proactive safety features and give it try. As it may be that it thinks your going to fast for particular movement and is applying the brakes lightly in back to help counter your driving at particular speed taking a corner for example.
