HRE/Kinesis issue?
06-09-05, 08:57 PM
#16
Glad he is ok after looking at that wheel 
Most people buy these for normal everyday driving so they shouldnt have to worry about these failures on their street driven cars right?
Most people buy these for normal everyday driving so they shouldnt have to worry about these failures on their street driven cars right?
06-09-05, 09:00 PM
#17
very interesting. i am not implying anything, but i am just curious why hre has been around for so long and just today (or very recently) the several cases of failure? wonder if it's just certain batch of hre wheels made or something. it's definitely going to be a lot of question for these and probably a lot unanswered.
but to be serious though, i have to say... personally i am really not sure if hre is for racing... i mean, we don't see them in racing cars mostly (the weekend track cars i don't really count them). you see tons of bbs, you see volks, weds, etc.... hre maybe are better designed for normal road use than track use imho?
and i would wonder about the % of failure too, like how many of these cars with hre wheels go to track and how many of them are failing. how often do they go, and do they drive on the street with the same wheels? how about the inspection, do they inspect the wheels closely every time before race?
but to be serious though, i have to say... personally i am really not sure if hre is for racing... i mean, we don't see them in racing cars mostly (the weekend track cars i don't really count them). you see tons of bbs, you see volks, weds, etc.... hre maybe are better designed for normal road use than track use imho?
and i would wonder about the % of failure too, like how many of these cars with hre wheels go to track and how many of them are failing. how often do they go, and do they drive on the street with the same wheels? how about the inspection, do they inspect the wheels closely every time before race?
06-10-05, 04:16 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by xknowonex
Well since my car is stock and am not driving it hard,anyone wanna sell me their HREs for cheap???? 
06-10-05, 05:30 AM
#23
where are all the guys who always preach "you get what you pay for?
people gave me crap when I bought my Konigs and people gave me crap when I bought OZ's because they weren't "top of the line" wheels. One such person was someone who owned a set of HRE's..
Only if I can remember who it was...... and yes... my wheels get tortured
people gave me crap when I bought my Konigs and people gave me crap when I bought OZ's because they weren't "top of the line" wheels. One such person was someone who owned a set of HRE's..
Only if I can remember who it was...... and yes... my wheels get tortured
06-10-05, 09:49 AM
#24
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Well after reading like hell about this situation this is what it seems.
1. These conclusions are from people who track their cars many times a year
2. All rims have a chance of cracking. Every brand was stated by someone, they have seen a rim crack. Just not as bad as the pics I posted.
3. HRE never claims and claimed to be a racing wheel. Just go to the website. They are still very high quality.
4. The stress of racing is so great, it can crack a rim. That is why racing rims are so valuable to them, the correct ones are built to handle the stresses of racing.
5. Hairline cracks are the most common issue, but that is still rare.
It seems to me on the internet, someone/people always want to be the first to knock down something that has been highly regarded for a long time. I am not saying this situation is over-blown but we don't have too many facts besides the Audi posts.
Personally speaking, I have never heard of people buying HRE to go race. They buy them for the prestige, the high quality, the look. When I see/talk to people about racing, its O.Z, BBS, Rays more than likely.
1. These conclusions are from people who track their cars many times a year
2. All rims have a chance of cracking. Every brand was stated by someone, they have seen a rim crack. Just not as bad as the pics I posted.
3. HRE never claims and claimed to be a racing wheel. Just go to the website. They are still very high quality.
4. The stress of racing is so great, it can crack a rim. That is why racing rims are so valuable to them, the correct ones are built to handle the stresses of racing.
5. Hairline cracks are the most common issue, but that is still rare.
It seems to me on the internet, someone/people always want to be the first to knock down something that has been highly regarded for a long time. I am not saying this situation is over-blown but we don't have too many facts besides the Audi posts.
Personally speaking, I have never heard of people buying HRE to go race. They buy them for the prestige, the high quality, the look. When I see/talk to people about racing, its O.Z, BBS, Rays more than likely.
06-10-05, 11:00 AM
#25
Lexus Champion
ANY wheel can fail under the right conditions. OE wheels fail. Even the almighty BBS wheels fail. Obviously, we are seeing an extreme case with the Kinesis wheel in the picture. We don't know the facts of what happened with this wheel- was it involved in an impact or accident at some point in the past? How old is it? Why was a race wheel powder coated in the first place?
Hopefully, further examination will lead to a factual conclusion about this failure. Also, it should be noted that racing voids the warranty on almost all aftermarket wheels-certainly all that I know about.
On real race wheels (BBS Magnesium, for example), X-rays are performed after EACH race to inspect for cracks. Race wheels DO have a finite life cycle- they are not meant to be raced on for years and years. Typically, if a set of wheels lasts one race season, you're getting your money's worth... I suspect the wheels in question were not EVER X-rayed, and even a pre-race visual inspection would not reveal a crack due to the opaque powder coat finish.
Also in question would be finish- you would typically NOT want to powder coat or chrome a race wheel, for two reasons: 1) the heat introduced into the wheel center section can be high enough to alter the temper of the aluminum 2) an opaque coating does not allow for visual inspection. Ideally, race wheels should be shot peened & anodized- shot peening relieves stresses and anodizing is not an opaque finish. A few wheel manufacturers offer this finish as an option, but it is not a "pretty" finish, and anodizing is typically not very UV or chemical tolerant.
I believe too many people (particularly in the Viper and Porsche Owner's Clubs) ask their aftermarket wheels to do double duty. They want "pretty" wheels to drive on the street, and they ask this same set of wheels to run five seasons at the track, too. And racers in this category are notoriously cheap (I don't mean to lump ALL of them into this stereotype) - many want the wheels for free (in exchange for running a 3" sticker on the car) and expect them to last several seasons. Like tires, race wheels are expendable.
I can say with certainty that all HRE wheel styles & diameters are subjected to vigorous finite-element analysis and radial & cornering load testing that is twice what the DOT recommends. I'm not sure the "johnny come lately" three-piece wheel manufacturers all do any analysis or testing at all... they are not required to by any law, after all, and the software and testing facilities are expensive. Many of these other three-piece wheel companies do not even have an engineer on staff- their wheels are designed by graphic artists or draftsmen!
There are many elements of a wheel design that must be juxtaposed to make a strong and roadworthy wheel- spoke profile, spoke cross-section, spoke width, etc.. Get just one of these variables wrong and you have a wheel that will fail. Yes, wheels the centers are forged- but it's the total DESIGN of the wheel that will affect its' strength and longevity. It's easy to make a beautiful wheel- it is difficult to make one that's beautiful AND strong.
As far as Damon at the Tire Rack commenting about a 5-spoke wheel not being as strong as a mesh wheel "more spoke = more strength," he is absolutely wrong about this. I would take a well-designed 5-spoke over a poorly-designed mesh wheel any day. The load paths are different, but in many cases a fat 5-spoke wheel is better than a mesh wheel. The strength attributes of different styles are different and can't easily be easily compared directly. He should not have commented about things he has no concept of.
As far as the tires "spinning on the rim," several wheel manufacturers use rims from the same supplier that HRE does, so IF this really is an issue,basically ALL American made three-piece wheels will have it. Most instances of this phenomenon are cause by freshly mounted tires on rims that may have been lubricated by soap or Euro Paste. A car with tons of torque and sticky tires can also create this. Even 4-cylinder front wheel drive drag Civics can do this on slicks...
Thus far, I have not actually seen any recent published evidence of other specifc HRE or Kinesis wheel failures, and these respective racing organizations do not make any mention of any wheel ban. This is why I hate the internet- it's so easy to spread propaganda and panic.
For you street guys- no worry, your wheels are fine- HRE and Kinesis are already overkill for the street, built with HUGE strength/safety margins.. Let's let the wheel manufacturers in question respond before jumping to further conclusions.
Hopefully, further examination will lead to a factual conclusion about this failure. Also, it should be noted that racing voids the warranty on almost all aftermarket wheels-certainly all that I know about.
On real race wheels (BBS Magnesium, for example), X-rays are performed after EACH race to inspect for cracks. Race wheels DO have a finite life cycle- they are not meant to be raced on for years and years. Typically, if a set of wheels lasts one race season, you're getting your money's worth... I suspect the wheels in question were not EVER X-rayed, and even a pre-race visual inspection would not reveal a crack due to the opaque powder coat finish.
Also in question would be finish- you would typically NOT want to powder coat or chrome a race wheel, for two reasons: 1) the heat introduced into the wheel center section can be high enough to alter the temper of the aluminum 2) an opaque coating does not allow for visual inspection. Ideally, race wheels should be shot peened & anodized- shot peening relieves stresses and anodizing is not an opaque finish. A few wheel manufacturers offer this finish as an option, but it is not a "pretty" finish, and anodizing is typically not very UV or chemical tolerant.
I believe too many people (particularly in the Viper and Porsche Owner's Clubs) ask their aftermarket wheels to do double duty. They want "pretty" wheels to drive on the street, and they ask this same set of wheels to run five seasons at the track, too. And racers in this category are notoriously cheap (I don't mean to lump ALL of them into this stereotype) - many want the wheels for free (in exchange for running a 3" sticker on the car) and expect them to last several seasons. Like tires, race wheels are expendable.
I can say with certainty that all HRE wheel styles & diameters are subjected to vigorous finite-element analysis and radial & cornering load testing that is twice what the DOT recommends. I'm not sure the "johnny come lately" three-piece wheel manufacturers all do any analysis or testing at all... they are not required to by any law, after all, and the software and testing facilities are expensive. Many of these other three-piece wheel companies do not even have an engineer on staff- their wheels are designed by graphic artists or draftsmen!
There are many elements of a wheel design that must be juxtaposed to make a strong and roadworthy wheel- spoke profile, spoke cross-section, spoke width, etc.. Get just one of these variables wrong and you have a wheel that will fail. Yes, wheels the centers are forged- but it's the total DESIGN of the wheel that will affect its' strength and longevity. It's easy to make a beautiful wheel- it is difficult to make one that's beautiful AND strong.
As far as Damon at the Tire Rack commenting about a 5-spoke wheel not being as strong as a mesh wheel "more spoke = more strength," he is absolutely wrong about this. I would take a well-designed 5-spoke over a poorly-designed mesh wheel any day. The load paths are different, but in many cases a fat 5-spoke wheel is better than a mesh wheel. The strength attributes of different styles are different and can't easily be easily compared directly. He should not have commented about things he has no concept of.
As far as the tires "spinning on the rim," several wheel manufacturers use rims from the same supplier that HRE does, so IF this really is an issue,basically ALL American made three-piece wheels will have it. Most instances of this phenomenon are cause by freshly mounted tires on rims that may have been lubricated by soap or Euro Paste. A car with tons of torque and sticky tires can also create this. Even 4-cylinder front wheel drive drag Civics can do this on slicks...
Thus far, I have not actually seen any recent published evidence of other specifc HRE or Kinesis wheel failures, and these respective racing organizations do not make any mention of any wheel ban. This is why I hate the internet- it's so easy to spread propaganda and panic.
For you street guys- no worry, your wheels are fine- HRE and Kinesis are already overkill for the street, built with HUGE strength/safety margins.. Let's let the wheel manufacturers in question respond before jumping to further conclusions.
Last edited by SoCalSC4; 06-10-05 at 11:20 AM.
06-10-05, 11:06 AM
#26
For some reasons I still can't justified the price of HRE....... Maybe I am just a die hard JDM fan. But my theory is.... there are other quality JDM manufacturers (Work, Weds, SSR (although they are gone now)) and definitely their price is much better compare to HRE. I guess maybe this is just personal preferences.....
06-10-05, 03:39 PM
#27
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OK. So one Kinesis wheel failed at a track event this past weekend. What does this have to do with HRE? Any actual broken HRE's? Sounds like a lot of haters spreadin some hype but if any of you HRE guys are worried, I'll buy them off ya at a steep discount. Hey, can't ever be too safe. 
On a side note, if you're gonna race at the track, you should be equiped with racing wheels and not street wheels. HRE, although among the most durable street wheel, really shouldn't be used at the track.
On a side note, if you're gonna race at the track, you should be equiped with racing wheels and not street wheels. HRE, although among the most durable street wheel, really shouldn't be used at the track.
06-10-05, 07:03 PM
#29
i sale wheels for a living and have always felt hre was extremely overpriced and overhyped, just my opinion so save the hater comments and dont be all defensive,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,in my 9 years of selling wheels and tires for a living ive came across many wheels i would rate as high if not higher than hre, despite what some think hre is not the god of all wheels, they are not the supreme wheel, and never will be, there are plenty just as good, and plenty of wheels that are better,,,,,,,,,,,,,again ive sold hre wheels and they are nice but not the best
06-11-05, 12:38 AM
#30
Originally Posted by blueGS400
i sale wheels for a living and have always felt hre was extremely overpriced and overhyped, just my opinion so save the hater comments and dont be all defensive,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,in my 9 years of selling wheels and tires for a living ive came across many wheels i would rate as high if not higher than hre, despite what some think hre is not the god of all wheels, they are not the supreme wheel, and never will be, there are plenty just as good, and plenty of wheels that are better,,,,,,,,,,,,,again ive sold hre wheels and they are nice but not the best