How easy is it to convert a 112 mm PB to a 114.3 mm
03-27-02, 10:55 PM
#31
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Originally posted by manaray
Calling anyone here "rookie" is pretty rude. You don't know everyone here nor do you know what their background is...but at any rate, calling SoCalSC4 a "rookie" is just plain wrong. If you knew who he was (now that I've figured it out!), you wouldn't say that about him...trust me...
Calling anyone here "rookie" is pretty rude. You don't know everyone here nor do you know what their background is...but at any rate, calling SoCalSC4 a "rookie" is just plain wrong. If you knew who he was (now that I've figured it out!), you wouldn't say that about him...trust me...
Actually I wasn't refering to HIM Manaray....And I was just kidding about being a rookie. Everyone here is a rookie. Thats why were here....TOO LEARN.
I just found out my boss has been rolling on BMW rims 5 x 120 ....and his car is a MERCEDES 5 x 112. Not only did he not redrill them.......HE FILLED THE HOLES OPEN! (Senior Mechanical Engineer) PHD!!!!
I'm in Fiber Optics now, but I use to be in designing Automation Equipment (4 years). In Automation you have to use every trick in the book to speed up production. Imagine putting a bic lighter together in 3 seconds, should give you a clue...VERY HARD...You must be very creative in the solution.
As for axial loads. I'm pretty sure most of the load is on the hub. The screw just hold the rims on the hub. As for screw loads.....Screws are VERY strong. Even if the bolts were taking the full load, it would be divided by 20. Lets use our math here.... 3800 pounds minus the rims ofcourse....which is around 200. 3600 divided by 20 is 175 pounds per bolt which is nothing for 1/2 inch diameter thread.
SoCalSC4, I wasn't calling you a rookie and your comments are welcomed ( Just hate when people post comments that usually state---GO THE SAFE ROUTE---).
I don't have Nastran, Algor or Cosmos Works at this job. But my last job at JPL, I could have done a simple Finite Element Analysis.
03-28-02, 04:42 AM
#32
Lexus Test Driver
“as long as all 5 bolts have at least 3 threads engagement, I see no problem”
I wish ya luck. I went through this same issue with a friend, after calling the VP of Engineering at one of my clients(has been in the Cold Heading and Thread Rolling business for over 20, and yes PhD like your manager. But is just so happens his company cold forms studs for the big 3” Come watch the lab torque on 3 threads vs. 8, then you run back out and put your stock wheels on. Simple calculation in the fastener industry, take the MM of the stud, and divide by 1.5. Most are 12mm, so you need 8 threads engaged. His comment to my friend back then, 3 threads and you turn a hard corner, watch your wheel strip the threads right off and who knows where your car is going to end up. Is that worth saving a few bucks? I seen these people who just toss locktite on their studs and say hey, I am good, the nut won’t spin off. Watch in the lab when the torque tester rips 3-4 threads pretty easy. 6-7 is not bad and you know your good with 8 :J
I wish ya luck. I went through this same issue with a friend, after calling the VP of Engineering at one of my clients(has been in the Cold Heading and Thread Rolling business for over 20, and yes PhD like your manager. But is just so happens his company cold forms studs for the big 3” Come watch the lab torque on 3 threads vs. 8, then you run back out and put your stock wheels on. Simple calculation in the fastener industry, take the MM of the stud, and divide by 1.5. Most are 12mm, so you need 8 threads engaged. His comment to my friend back then, 3 threads and you turn a hard corner, watch your wheel strip the threads right off and who knows where your car is going to end up. Is that worth saving a few bucks? I seen these people who just toss locktite on their studs and say hey, I am good, the nut won’t spin off. Watch in the lab when the torque tester rips 3-4 threads pretty easy. 6-7 is not bad and you know your good with 8 :J
Last edited by jpa2400; 03-28-02 at 08:52 AM.
03-28-02, 05:27 AM
#33
Lexus Champion
Originally posted by SoCalSC4
A shank-style nut (like Lexus/Totota uses OE) wouldn't even come close to fitting.
A shank-style nut (like Lexus/Totota uses OE) wouldn't even come close to fitting.
HTH
03-28-02, 10:26 AM
#34
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Originally posted by jpa2400
“as long as all 5 bolts have at least 3 threads engagement, I see no problem”
I wish ya luck. I went through this same issue with a friend, after calling the VP of Engineering at one of my clients(has been in the Cold Heading and Thread Rolling business for over 20, and yes PhD like your manager. But is just so happens his company cold forms studs for the big 3” Come watch the lab torque on 3 threads vs. 8, then you run back out and put your stock wheels on. Simple calculation in the fastener industry, take the MM of the stud, and divide by 1.5. Most are 12mm, so you need 8 threads engaged. His comment to my friend back then, 3 threads and you turn a hard corner, watch your wheel strip the threads right off and who knows where your car is going to end up. Is that worth saving a few bucks? I seen these people who just toss locktite on their studs and say hey, I am good, the nut won’t spin off. Watch in the lab when the torque tester rips 3-4 threads pretty easy. 6-7 is not bad and you know your good with 8 :J
“as long as all 5 bolts have at least 3 threads engagement, I see no problem”
I wish ya luck. I went through this same issue with a friend, after calling the VP of Engineering at one of my clients(has been in the Cold Heading and Thread Rolling business for over 20, and yes PhD like your manager. But is just so happens his company cold forms studs for the big 3” Come watch the lab torque on 3 threads vs. 8, then you run back out and put your stock wheels on. Simple calculation in the fastener industry, take the MM of the stud, and divide by 1.5. Most are 12mm, so you need 8 threads engaged. His comment to my friend back then, 3 threads and you turn a hard corner, watch your wheel strip the threads right off and who knows where your car is going to end up. Is that worth saving a few bucks? I seen these people who just toss locktite on their studs and say hey, I am good, the nut won’t spin off. Watch in the lab when the torque tester rips 3-4 threads pretty easy. 6-7 is not bad and you know your good with 8 :J
Imagine having 50 threads engagment ( When is it excessive?). The reason threads work so well is because of all the area incontact, Its all about the surface area contact versus the tensile strength of the bolt.
Even if the load on the screw was axial (pretty sure its a sheer load) which has nothing to do with thread engagment.
Imagine slicing bread.....No matter how much you hold the bread....the knife will still cut thru it.
03-28-02, 06:12 PM
#35
Lexus Champion
This is getting interesting... my Dad was an engineer at JPL for 12 years- worked on Magellan, Galileo, Space Shuttle, and raised a big stink within JPL/CalTech & NASA about getting Hubble's optics tested before launch - we know how that turned out (at least it gave him something to fix after the thing didn't work worth a crap).
Small world... It's just funny how much I turned out like my Dad: always (over) analyzing everything... it's scary how much we think alike!
Anyhoo, the tiny company I work for has some great F.E. analysis software- If I can find time to do a little more homework...
Ahhh, heck with it... do what you want to do with your wheels: that's the operative word here, anyway:
your wheels!
Small world... It's just funny how much I turned out like my Dad: always (over) analyzing everything... it's scary how much we think alike!
Anyhoo, the tiny company I work for has some great F.E. analysis software- If I can find time to do a little more homework...
Ahhh, heck with it... do what you want to do with your wheels: that's the operative word here, anyway:
your wheels!
03-29-02, 12:34 AM
#36
Lexus Fanatic
------------------ <--The Bottom Line
It's your car, it's your life. If you think re-drilled wheels are OK, then go fo it. Just make sure not to hit any innocent people!
It's your car, it's your life. If you think re-drilled wheels are OK, then go fo it. Just make sure not to hit any innocent people!
03-31-02, 11:04 PM
#37
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Don't try to buy Mercedes wheels and just bolt them on. It doesn't work. I GUARANTEE it. You'll bend the stud and strip the stud and the lugnut. Why bother?
Case in point: A customer of ours bought a set of Lowenhart BSDs, dual PCD 5:112/114.3 (10 separate holes, can be done on closed lug wheels). Guess what? He couldn't tell which set of holes was which, so he just guessed. The result? Stripped lug threads. Granted, the CL/S class use 14mm lug holes, and the Lexus uses 12mm, meaning that the tolerance in the lug hole is enough. Therefore it will physically mount over the thread, but you're in for a big surprise after you torgue the the lug down. The seat will seat crooked, and what do you know? Stripped threads.
You can drill the wheel hole out, but don't try it w/o drilling it. Plenty of Lexus guys have put on Brabus, Lorinser, etc.., but they have all been drilled. Just make sure you have someone who knows what they're doing.
Case in point: A customer of ours bought a set of Lowenhart BSDs, dual PCD 5:112/114.3 (10 separate holes, can be done on closed lug wheels). Guess what? He couldn't tell which set of holes was which, so he just guessed. The result? Stripped lug threads. Granted, the CL/S class use 14mm lug holes, and the Lexus uses 12mm, meaning that the tolerance in the lug hole is enough. Therefore it will physically mount over the thread, but you're in for a big surprise after you torgue the the lug down. The seat will seat crooked, and what do you know? Stripped threads.
You can drill the wheel hole out, but don't try it w/o drilling it. Plenty of Lexus guys have put on Brabus, Lorinser, etc.., but they have all been drilled. Just make sure you have someone who knows what they're doing.
Last edited by Wheel Experts; 03-31-02 at 11:07 PM.
04-01-02, 12:01 AM
#38
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Originally posted by lee2375
Don't try to buy Mercedes wheels and just bolt them on. It doesn't work. I GUARANTEE it. You'll bend the stud and strip the stud and the lugnut. Why bother?
Case in point: A customer of ours bought a set of Lowenhart BSDs, dual PCD 5:112/114.3 (10 separate holes, can be done on closed lug wheels). Guess what? He couldn't tell which set of holes was which, so he just guessed. The result? Stripped lug threads. Granted, the CL/S class use 14mm lug holes, and the Lexus uses 12mm, meaning that the tolerance in the lug hole is enough. Therefore it will physically mount over the thread, but you're in for a big surprise after you torgue the the lug down. The seat will seat crooked, and what do you know? Stripped threads.
You can drill the wheel hole out, but don't try it w/o drilling it. Plenty of Lexus guys have put on Brabus, Lorinser, etc.., but they have all been drilled. Just make sure you have someone who knows what they're doing.
Don't try to buy Mercedes wheels and just bolt them on. It doesn't work. I GUARANTEE it. You'll bend the stud and strip the stud and the lugnut. Why bother?
Case in point: A customer of ours bought a set of Lowenhart BSDs, dual PCD 5:112/114.3 (10 separate holes, can be done on closed lug wheels). Guess what? He couldn't tell which set of holes was which, so he just guessed. The result? Stripped lug threads. Granted, the CL/S class use 14mm lug holes, and the Lexus uses 12mm, meaning that the tolerance in the lug hole is enough. Therefore it will physically mount over the thread, but you're in for a big surprise after you torgue the the lug down. The seat will seat crooked, and what do you know? Stripped threads.
You can drill the wheel hole out, but don't try it w/o drilling it. Plenty of Lexus guys have put on Brabus, Lorinser, etc.., but they have all been drilled. Just make sure you have someone who knows what they're doing.
When you drill it out, there will be an oval which still means the acorn will not seat on all 360° of the nut.
04-01-02, 01:03 AM
#39
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Originally posted by manaray
Calling anyone here "rookie" is pretty rude. You don't know everyone here nor do you know what their background is...but at any rate, calling SoCalSC4 a "rookie" is just plain wrong. If you knew who he was (now that I've figured it out!), you wouldn't say that about him...trust me...
Calling anyone here "rookie" is pretty rude. You don't know everyone here nor do you know what their background is...but at any rate, calling SoCalSC4 a "rookie" is just plain wrong. If you knew who he was (now that I've figured it out!), you wouldn't say that about him...trust me...
Please, regardless of whether or not you choose to listen/use the advice/info that is given, have some tact and simply state that you disagree....Enginyr, you are well liked and have nothing to prove.
I know that I dont need to be an engineer on any level to learn/understand bolt patterns, offsets, widths, diameters, materials, styles, applications, or different designs of wheels as it applies to choosing a wheel for my ride.. Now, if you ask me to write a formula explaining how much weight each thread on a stud is bearing........."DUUUUH?!?!"
On a lighter note, I have a couple of questions about lugs.
A 114.3mm hole being used with correct sized stud makes sense to me.
-Is it the "acorn" looking wedge style lugs that will bend the stud or cause the threads to strip on a 112mm bolt pattern by forcing themselves into whatever opening is left around the stud?
-Can someone outline the different lug types and what wheels they are used with?
-Does the size of the "body" of the lug nut matter? Or, is the wedge shaped end what is crucial to match the opening on the wheel itself?
On my new wheels, I used the same acorn style lugs that I had on my SSR's. The opening around the lug nut is slightly larger on the Zauber than the SSR. But, the space where the lug nut ultimately sinks into is the same.
Arent there some cool looking JDM lug nuts that are avilable in an ultra lightweight black anodized color? TIA, Tiny
Last edited by tinygs; 04-01-02 at 01:09 AM.
04-01-02, 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by tinygs
Especially for the sake of members who do alot of surfing/sponging on our various CL forums like me!! Being graced by the presence of reps from "BIG" players in the after market game that we all like so much is the time to take notes!! It doesnt happen often.... Its not an opportunity to run him(SoCal) off while making us all seem like "know it alls" .....What more can we ask for?!?!?!
Please, regardless of whether or not you choose to listen/use the advice/info that is given, have some tact and simply state that you disagree....Enginyr, you are well liked and have nothing to prove.
I know that I dont need to be an engineer on any level to learn/understand bolt patterns, offsets, widths, diameters, materials, styles, applications, or different designs of wheels as it applies to choosing a wheel for my ride.. Now, if you ask me to write a formula explaining how much weight each thread on a stud is bearing........."DUUUUH?!?!"
On a lighter note, I have a couple of questions about lugs.
A 114.3mm hole being used with correct sized stud makes sense to me.
-Is it the "acorn" looking wedge style lugs that will bend the stud or cause the threads to strip on a 112mm bolt pattern by forcing themselves into whatever opening is left around the stud?
-Can someone outline the different lug types and what wheels they are used with?
-Does the size of the "body" of the lug nut matter? Or, is the wedge shaped end what is crucial to match the opening on the wheel itself?
On my new wheels, I used the same acorn style lugs that I had on my SSR's. The opening around the lug nut is slightly larger on the Zauber than the SSR. But, the space where the lug nut ultimately sinks into is the same.
Arent there some cool looking JDM lug nuts that are avilable in an ultra lightweight black anodized color? TIA, Tiny
Especially for the sake of members who do alot of surfing/sponging on our various CL forums like me!! Being graced by the presence of reps from "BIG" players in the after market game that we all like so much is the time to take notes!! It doesnt happen often.... Its not an opportunity to run him(SoCal) off while making us all seem like "know it alls" .....What more can we ask for?!?!?!
Please, regardless of whether or not you choose to listen/use the advice/info that is given, have some tact and simply state that you disagree....Enginyr, you are well liked and have nothing to prove.
I know that I dont need to be an engineer on any level to learn/understand bolt patterns, offsets, widths, diameters, materials, styles, applications, or different designs of wheels as it applies to choosing a wheel for my ride.. Now, if you ask me to write a formula explaining how much weight each thread on a stud is bearing........."DUUUUH?!?!"
On a lighter note, I have a couple of questions about lugs.
A 114.3mm hole being used with correct sized stud makes sense to me.
-Is it the "acorn" looking wedge style lugs that will bend the stud or cause the threads to strip on a 112mm bolt pattern by forcing themselves into whatever opening is left around the stud?
-Can someone outline the different lug types and what wheels they are used with?
-Does the size of the "body" of the lug nut matter? Or, is the wedge shaped end what is crucial to match the opening on the wheel itself?
On my new wheels, I used the same acorn style lugs that I had on my SSR's. The opening around the lug nut is slightly larger on the Zauber than the SSR. But, the space where the lug nut ultimately sinks into is the same.
Arent there some cool looking JDM lug nuts that are avilable in an ultra lightweight black anodized color? TIA, Tiny
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